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Idea: t2 Heavy Command battleships

Author
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-02-26 04:22:57 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Change the caldari one to missiles and the amarr one to projectiles that way all systems are represented and all of them are using their races main weapons.


then i would change the caldari fleet bonus to missile application


Not sure about the amarr one using turrets, but I do see it complimenting the Gallente one with drones in that regard. Perhaps giving range and sig reduction bonus to missiles would work well enough...
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#42 - 2015-02-26 06:47:45 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Change the caldari one to missiles and the amarr one to projectiles that way all systems are represented and all of them are using their races main weapons.


then i would change the caldari fleet bonus to missile application



Lugh, dear,

Amarr would use lasers, not projectiles.


Catherine, I'm curious, so I'll keep reading.

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-02-26 19:23:18 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Change the caldari one to missiles and the amarr one to projectiles that way all systems are represented and all of them are using their races main weapons.


then i would change the caldari fleet bonus to missile application



Lugh, dear,

Amarr would use lasers, not projectiles.


Catherine, I'm curious, so I'll keep reading.

I like the current balance for the boosts, but I am concerned about the current boost amount. Command ships boost at 3% per level, and titans boost at 7.5%. Considering that I'm going for a conceptual progression between the two with these, do you think it would be viable to go for a 5% boost per level, or would that be too overpowered?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#44 - 2015-02-26 21:37:08 UTC
HAC resist profile would not be OP. People are just terrified of BS's having enough EHP to actually justify their use properly.
Marauders should always have been given T2 resists, as should Black Ops, it would make them worth their price tag, and would also have made Bastion Mode less compulsory.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-02-27 19:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
HAC resist profile would not be OP. People are just terrified of BS's having enough EHP to actually justify their use properly.
Marauders should always have been given T2 resists, as should Black Ops, it would make them worth their price tag, and would also have made Bastion Mode less compulsory.

I think the issue with applying high resists on battleships isn't with defenses, but with their firepower, i.e. how much dps it takes to bring them down vs how much they can dish out.

A good example for this would be the sleipnir vs the damnation, which I've highlighted as an equivilant between the Warhammer and Hellfire in this instance. The sleip is revered as a solo pwnmobile because it mixes astounding levels of dps and tank while maintaining the essential elements of dmg application with mobility. While battleships certainly aren't considered 'mobile' they apply their damages at excellent ranges, and vessels like the blaster rokh or AC tempest can apply their dps quite well.

The offset comes with their inability to track smaller targets and apply subsequent damage to them. Having a high-resist tank negates this to a degree since something in that setting can shrug off the dps from smaller targets entirely while focusing on the targets it CAN hit. I get how it makes sense from a fleet standpoint to have high resists and high tank, which is why I opted for having the dictor-level resists, since it (in my mind at least) reaches a happy medium between high fleet-level tanks and not being invulnerable to small-arms fire.

That being said, the tank on the hellfire with a HG slave set would reach well over a million ehp. That would be working as intended in that instance, and would be damn interesting to see it applied in a fleet instance. Would you be against swapping its range bonus to logi to an amount bonus?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-02-27 20:11:58 UTC
OP has been updated with changes to 5% strength, Zeus boosts getting changed, and a new role bonus for the ships.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2015-02-28 00:13:14 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:


I am also proposing that this would HAVE to be paired with a nerf to command links which only allows them to boost ships on-grid. I would not support these ships or ships like it being introduced until current command links are balanced, and ONLY apply on-grid with the ship boosting them. Keep that in mind with their role bonus.

[


And what we do wit T3's warfare subsyetems? just blop to the trashcan? insted just make it imposible to turn on links to close to the forcefield 20km+ from the force field (just like cyno inhibitor) and give links weapon timers so they can't just pleasure thems selfs on station undock.

bom Problem gone, now we can kill all the links \\\o///
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2015-02-28 00:15:45 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

DRAGON
t2 Rokh, ishukone manufacturer

8/7/4 slot layout, 8 turret slots

Caldari Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level,
4% bonus to shield resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level,
5% increase in fleet members' turret optimal range and missile velocity per level



ZEUS
t2 Hyperion, Roden manufacturer

7/5/7 slot layout, 6 turret slots

Gallente Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level,
7.5% bonus to Large Armor Repair amount per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level,
5% increase in fleet members' sensor resolution and targeting range per level


HELLFIRE
t2 Abaddon, Khanid manufacturer

8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots

Amarr Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise, and Heavy missile velocity
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
10% bonus to armor amount per level,
5% bonus to fleet members' transfer array range per level


WARHAMMER
T2 Maelstrom, Core Complexion manufacturer

8/6/5 slot layout, 8 turret slots

Minmatar Battleship skill:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level,
7.5% bonus to Shield Booster repair amount per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking speed per level,
5% reduction to fleet members' module heat damage taken per level


.


i was thinking lik e titan links? insted of 7,5% per level give them 4% per lvl!? Caldari shield HP/Amarr armour HP etc ect?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-02-28 04:28:35 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

DRAGON
t2 Rokh, ishukone manufacturer

8/7/4 slot layout, 8 turret slots

Caldari Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level,
4% bonus to shield resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level,
5% increase in fleet members' turret optimal range and missile velocity per level



ZEUS
t2 Hyperion, Roden manufacturer

7/5/7 slot layout, 6 turret slots

Gallente Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage per level,
7.5% bonus to Large Armor Repair amount per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level,
5% increase in fleet members' sensor resolution and targeting range per level


HELLFIRE
t2 Abaddon, Khanid manufacturer

8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots

Amarr Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise, and Heavy missile velocity
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
10% bonus to armor amount per level,
5% bonus to fleet members' transfer array range per level


WARHAMMER
T2 Maelstrom, Core Complexion manufacturer

8/6/5 slot layout, 8 turret slots

Minmatar Battleship skill:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level,
7.5% bonus to Shield Booster repair amount per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking speed per level,
5% reduction to fleet members' module heat damage taken per level


.


i was thinking lik e titan links? insted of 7,5% per level give them 4% per lvl!? Caldari shield HP/Amarr armour HP etc ect?

That's the idea with the passive boosts, yes. The thing to remember is not doubling up on the same bonuses, and making it a bit less strong since they're battleships and not capitals. Auxilary bonuses like head reduction and logi range help out quite a bit in a variety of settings, so they should be very useful.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-02-28 04:29:57 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:


I am also proposing that this would HAVE to be paired with a nerf to command links which only allows them to boost ships on-grid. I would not support these ships or ships like it being introduced until current command links are balanced, and ONLY apply on-grid with the ship boosting them. Keep that in mind with their role bonus.

[


And what we do wit T3's warfare subsyetems? just blop to the trashcan? insted just make it imposible to turn on links to close to the forcefield 20km+ from the force field (just like cyno inhibitor) and give links weapon timers so they can't just pleasure thems selfs on station undock.

bom Problem gone, now we can kill all the links \\\o///

Having on-grid links means that whatever's on field is there to be combat-fit and help with the fleet, not hid away somewhere for boosting. It's how the game SHOULD work, but doesn't. P
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-02-28 10:02:55 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

DRAGON
t2 Rokh, ishukone manufacturer

8/7/4 slot layout, 8 turret slots

ZEUS
t2 Hyperion, Roden manufacturer

7/5/7 slot layout, 6 turret slots

HELLFIRE
t2 Abaddon, Khanid manufacturer

8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots

WARHAMMER
T2 Maelstrom, Core Complexion manufacturer

8/6/5 slot layout, 8 turret slots


Why Gallente ship has only 7 highs and 6 turrets when the others get 8 slots and 8 guns?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#52 - 2015-02-28 15:08:47 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
Why Gallente ship has only 7 highs and 6 turrets when the others get 8 slots and 8 guns?
More drones?

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Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-02-28 22:27:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Atomeon wrote:
Why Gallente ship has only 7 highs and 6 turrets when the others get 8 slots and 8 guns?
More drones?


I dont see a drone bonus nor a drone bay size.

I also dont see at least 3 high slots as utility slot so ppl forced to use them as boosters instead of 8 slots of turrets and launchers.
With the current layout they will be used as damage dealers and not as boosters.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-02-28 23:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Catherine Laartii wrote:


HELLFIRE
t2 Abaddon, Khanid manufacturer

8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots

Amarr Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise, and Heavy missile velocity
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
10% bonus to armor amount per level,
5% bonus to fleet members' transfer array range per level

ROLE BONUS: 10% bonus to boosted ship command link effectiveness. (total, not per level)


Seems like too much tank. Both resistance and armor HP bonuses are very powerfull by itself, combining them with Amarr T2 resist profile (no EXP hole) and generous 7 low slots will make this ship increadibly tanky. As a subcap it can't be DDed so just mix some remote repair and it will become virtually unkillable. Also it's combined bonus to 25% repair range and 50% missile range bonus will allow Hellfire to sit safely away from battle and provide both DPS assist and probably of the best fleet bonuses in the game. Do RR really needs a buff?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-03-01 00:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:


HELLFIRE
t2 Abaddon, Khanid manufacturer

8/4/7 slot layout, 8 launcher slots

Amarr Battleship skill:
10% bonus to Torpedo, Cruise, and Heavy missile velocity
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Heavy Command Ship skill:
10% bonus to armor amount per level,
5% bonus to fleet members' transfer array range per level

ROLE BONUS: 10% bonus to boosted ship command link effectiveness. (total, not per level)


Seems like too much tank. Both resistance and armor HP bonuses are very powerfull by itself, combining them with Amarr T2 resist profile (no EXP hole) and generous 7 low slots will make this ship increadibly tanky. As a subcap it can't be DDed so just mix some remote repair and it will become virtually unkillable. Also it's combined bonus to 25% repair range and 50% missile range bonus will allow Hellfire to sit safely away from battle and provide both DPS assist and probably of the best fleet bonuses in the game. Do RR really needs a buff?


It doesn't have command ship level resists; it has dictor-level resists, so while it'll have more hp than a Damnation, it'll have lower resists. It will also have a significantly larger sig radius and be very slow, so it's not exactly indestructible, especially considering that unless it's getting titan boosts, it won't be getting ehp boosts like armored warfare links since it'll be boosting the command ships beneath it.

In regards to logistics, this is an increase to range, not amount. This is not an issue since sensor damps are an excellent counter to logi that's spread apart, and bombs are a good counter to logi grouped together. Giving pilots in a fleet more room to move around has quite a few advantages, but doesn't translate to a straight buff since there are already plenty of counters.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-03-01 00:24:52 UTC
Atomeon wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Atomeon wrote:
Why Gallente ship has only 7 highs and 6 turrets when the others get 8 slots and 8 guns?
More drones?


I dont see a drone bonus nor a drone bay size.

I also dont see at least 3 high slots as utility slot so ppl forced to use them as boosters instead of 8 slots of turrets and launchers.
With the current layout they will be used as damage dealers and not as boosters.


The hyperion has a 10% dmg bonus to its hybrids, and puts out quite a bit of dps. The boosts these ships give out are passively operated like titans, and need no links fit to the ship itself to work. This also allows them, as you stated, do function in more of a direct combat role than an armchair fleet booster.
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