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Becomming Suspect on entering FW Complex

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ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#41 - 2015-02-28 14:22:27 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Flash Thomson wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

If you want aggressors to pick up Criminal flag, then you should be a miner. Sounds like farming is something you're into.



Not sure, if I haven't been clear! This is exactly what I don't want! I don't want to have to farm to get my security rating up again! I want to be able to shoot any enemy in a plex regardless of Faction Warfare enemy or filthy Pirate scum...


if you are concerned with your security status then FW is not for you! use alts for any hisec activity.


So is this a prerequisite joining faction warfare? Losing sec status for the glory of the empire? lol

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Davey Talvanen
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#42 - 2015-02-28 15:22:48 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

You're still farming. You're just farming idiots instead of red crosses. I only have one account so ganking for profit would be unworkable.


This
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#43 - 2015-02-28 18:02:49 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Flash Thomson wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

If you want aggressors to pick up Criminal flag, then you should be a miner. Sounds like farming is something you're into.



Not sure, if I haven't been clear! This is exactly what I don't want! I don't want to have to farm to get my security rating up again! I want to be able to shoot any enemy in a plex regardless of Faction Warfare enemy or filthy Pirate scum...


if you are concerned with your security status then FW is not for you! use alts for any hisec activity.


That is a statement of conformity, that somehow you have come to accept that taking part in your militia should logically, eventually, bar you from entering the same space you fight to protect.



no, i was barred from entering the federation i hold dear is because i killed alot of innocent (read neutral) pilots entering my plex, that is logical.

what illogical is, preventing neutrals to enter a plex and make them a suspect.

just like irl, anybody (reporters, volunteers, etc) can go to a war zone. does this mean a soldier can just shoot at them without any repurcussions? if you don't want to take a sec hit then allow them to shoot at you 1st, make them a "true" suspect 1st before you engage them.

Just Add Water
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#44 - 2015-02-28 18:45:56 UTC
Davey Talvanen wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

You're still farming. You're just farming idiots instead of red crosses. I only have one account so ganking for profit would be unworkable.


This



You got your quote mechanics wrong there, buddy. Sibyyl would never say anything so brain dead. The actual clown you should be attributing that quote to is Demerius Xenocratus. It's on page 1, post 17. Here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5529167#post5529167

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Flash Thomson
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#45 - 2015-02-28 22:16:37 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
Maybe you should rename "criminal" with "suspect".
Flagged:
Also in Missions.
Also upon entering any accelerationgate.
Also in highsec for more contest there ... Twisted
Then those ignorant posters here would see better.

BUT i want to point out some things:
Sec status hit or not. It does not affect difficulty at all. Why do people still think that?!
Its just the costs that increases. 1point of sec is worth around 50milion for someone that wants to have a "high sec"-status.
But then there is this little trigger of "-5". When people do not have enough money to buy the sec back and then train an alt for support and then go on to multicharacter play, they can truly enjoy the game of "shoot everyone". Then they have manned up.
Its funny how FW does this atm: Guiding new players on a path to become criminals and leave highsec. yay!

Now if players could join FW on the pirate faction side, if they have -5sec as requirement, there could be some incentive to go to Null through it. Which would be great!

So to conclude: Lore- and Justice- perceivedwise i would agree to put suspect flags on entering "neutrals". BUT the benefit it brings to the gameplay progression of new players is just toooooo big like it is right now!

Now maybe OP sees better.

PS.: i recently bought tag4sec for WH logistic as i thought it would help me fly expensive ships from market to my homesystem. but i could do it with the hauler alt much easier. I consider it lost money now.


I actually do mean suspect! (<-- Noob)

So I edited the subject

About this whole civilian thing....

This is Eve!
Who ever entered a plex without intending to fight?

It is simple Concord could proclaim Plexes no go zones for not faction war pilots and as such flag everyone entering a plex not taking part in faction warfare as suspect...

Tanking since 1982

Reporting Caldari Faction Warfare news on www.caldarinews.wordpress.com
Naomi Anthar
#46 - 2015-02-28 22:34:29 UTC
God only knows why this is not implemented already.

There is basically no single LEGIT( i mean serious one) argument against it, yet hundreds that support it.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#47 - 2015-02-28 22:42:16 UTC
I wouldn't have a problem being set suspect on entering a FW plex. Neutrals only ever enter to fight.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#48 - 2015-02-28 22:42:43 UTC
There are no bounty rats in a plex, there are no asteroids in a plex, there is no reason for a non-pvper to be in a plex, so there is no reason for there not to be a suspect tag added to them while they're in there.

On the other side, if a pirate comes into a plex and the person inside cares about their sec status, the pirate is either forcing the other player to take a sec status hit in an obviously hostile environment for that player, or for the player in the plex to let the pirate get to whatever optimal they want.

There is NO good reason for not gaining a suspect flag for entering a plex.
Iain Cariaba
#49 - 2015-02-28 22:58:31 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
God only knows why this is not implemented already.

There is basically no single LEGIT( i mean serious one) argument against it, yet hundreds that support it.


Yes, hundreds out of the tens of thousands of players. Face it, you're not even 1%.

Oh, you want one legit reason for flying into a site if you're not faction warfare? Try using them as an escape route to break off pursuit. I've dived into novice and small sites before to shake pursuit by ships too large to use the gate. Using your logic, I should have gotten a timer that allows everyone to shoot me when I got to highsec because I was trying to hide instead of fight.
Bright Noa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-02-28 23:17:52 UTC
I don't know how it works in your country, but over here our soldiers routinely have to wait for a green light from command before engaging ANYTHING unless it's already shooting at them, more or less. If you want to be a lawless killer living on the fringes of society, that's what standard low sec gaming is for. If you want to be a soldier, you gotta work with their rules, man. That means not just senselessly killing anyone who ain't friendly as soon as they show their face. Be on guard. Be ready. Strike when they become hostile. To change it would be to change it for the sake of game mechanics and ease, and nothing else. It would be the exact opposite of realistic. You're thinking of this from the perspective of yourself as a player and not from the one of those who are living in this world.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#51 - 2015-02-28 23:30:28 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Flash Thomson wrote:
I want to suggest to flag Pilots, that enter FW Complexes without taking part in Faction Warfare, as criminals.
It shouldn't be posted anywhere because it is a bad idea. Even going with your example, civilians exsist in war zones and areas of conflict. Military members are not allowed to simply open fire without provocation..
Civilians don't usually drive tanks and fire on the military. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2015-02-28 23:33:09 UTC
Flash Thomson wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Either


A.) wait for them to fire on you
or
B.) man up and take the sec hit



I generally go with option B although it has done me little good, I simply still suck at PvP =D
(If you want a good laugh check out my killboard =) )

My point is, I am there fighting for the State and yes also for my personal profit and I am sure all off you guys make great profits from it, me not so much... I loose to many ships, trying to find the right one =D
And you know what that's fine! I am having fun...
But lets talk about carrying the cost of defending my self, apart from working to get a new ship and mods, I don't have the time and will to farm for something I personally consider should not happen in the first place.

But lets turn this around.

What are you afraid of Mr. Pirate? You come here to fight! You where going to take the Sec hit anyway, what do you care if you get tagged as Criminal when entering a plex?

Oh you might not get to fire the first volley?
Who is the chicken now?

So I stand by it, you do not participate in FW? You get flagged as Criminal entering a plex! Easy as that! Fair fight good night!

You're the one asking for change here, which means you want the consequences for shooting a neutral gone. So your attempt at moving the fear aspect is quite frankly, ludicrous.
I am a pirate. I am -10, which means I'm open season all the time. You seem to be discussing players with a security standing above -5. They are not pirates, they are neutral players to you as far as the game is concerned.

So just like in warzones, there are consequences for shooting neutral (civilians). There are rules of engagement, just like in Eve. So either pay the consequences, or don't shoot first. It being a FW plex, doesn't remove you from the rules or make you a special case.

Naomi Anthar wrote:
God only knows why this is not implemented already.

There is basically no single LEGIT( i mean serious one) argument against it, yet hundreds that support it.

There has not been ONE legit, or logical reason for this change. 'I want' and 'I wish to avoid the consequences', are neither. It's FW, not FNW.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Bright Noa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-02-28 23:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bright Noa
Ugh, even if they see a tank rolling near by them. They DO NOT fire until they are allowed to.

Even if they see it firing, they DO NOT fire until they are allowed to.

Only if it engages them are they allowed to return fire, to my knowledge. Otherwise, they wait for the order.

Unless you know 100 percent that it's the enemy, you do not fire on that target.

You might think it's silly, but that is how war works.

I would be glad to grab some raw combat footage showing how this works, if you like.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#54 - 2015-02-28 23:40:31 UTC
Suspect timer maybe, criminal timer is a no no.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
God only knows why this is not implemented already.

There is basically no single LEGIT( i mean serious one) argument against it, yet hundreds that support it.


Yes, hundreds out of the tens of thousands of players. Face it, you're not even 1%.

Oh, you want one legit reason for flying into a site if you're not faction warfare? Try using them as an escape route to break off pursuit. I've dived into novice and small sites before to shake pursuit by ships too large to use the gate. Using your logic, I should have gotten a timer that allows everyone to shoot me when I got to highsec because I was trying to hide instead of fight.

Can you explain your tactic more, you were breaking off pursuit by jumping in small in what from what?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#55 - 2015-02-28 23:48:40 UTC
I've said this before in these threads. If you want this done in a way that is more balanced and a makes for a better game in low sec, then do the following:

Remove sec hits from all ship kills in low sec and have sec hits on pods only.

It might open things up more there.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#56 - 2015-02-28 23:55:30 UTC
Mag's why do you think it's more balanced that way?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#57 - 2015-02-28 23:57:51 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's why do you think it's more balanced that way?
Everyone is in the same boat and it doesn't rely upon special rules.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#58 - 2015-03-01 00:09:16 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's why do you think it's more balanced that way?
Everyone is in the same boat and it doesn't rely upon special rules.

Well true, but what about new'ish pirates wannabes? Also gate guns become kind of absolutely useless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#59 - 2015-03-01 00:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's why do you think it's more balanced that way?
Everyone is in the same boat and it doesn't rely upon special rules.

Well true, but what about new'ish pirates wannabes? Also gate guns become kind of absolutely useless.
If you mean what about newish pirates getting to -10, then pod kills are still available. (Or high sec ship/pod kills)

Gate guns could just shoot on pod kills, but I don't care either way with those tbh. Simple is generally best though.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#60 - 2015-03-01 00:28:25 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Mag's why do you think it's more balanced that way?
Everyone is in the same boat and it doesn't rely upon special rules.

Well true, but what about new'ish pirates wannabes? Also gate guns become kind of absolutely useless.
If you mean what about newish pirates getting to -10, then pod kills are still available. (Or high sec ship/pod kills)

Gate guns could just shoot on pod kills, but I don't care either way with those tbh. Simple is generally best though.


Great point indeed, streamlining things is the best solution than just making rules about rules on top of one another.