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Killboard needs more meaningful stats

Author
Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
#1 - 2015-02-28 08:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Exotic Matters
I think the statistics on the killboards could be improved to give more meaningful stats.

As it stands a pilot who sits in a 100 man fleet gatecamping will have much better stats than a 2 or 3 man gang who take on battles that require more risk and skill.

I tried to think of ways that amount of damage done or number of final blows/most damage would be tracked but this would discredit the value of tackle and other non-dps warfare that often requires more skill. Other things would require numbers that are not already recorded by the game.

But at the very least it seem like it would be easy to generate a stat that took into account the number of pilots on the kill. So you would have an "adjusted" kill stat where if you were in a 100 man fleet you would get .01 kill and if you were in a 2 man fleet you would get .5 kill.

Or perhaps the isk ratio be based on this. If 100 ships kill a 100 million isk ship, the pilot gets credit for 1 million isk damage. As it stands a 90% isk efficiency is a stat entirely without meaning and can be achieved by the worst pilot in the game if he joins the right fleets. But this stat I suggest would be a much more reliable gauge of the success rate of the pilot.

Maybe other ideas that haven't occurred to me, just seems to me that the numbers are less meaningful than they could be.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-02-28 09:04:44 UTC
I was under the impression the points systems on killboard sites accounted for this.

While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.

Worrying about killboards is part of the risk aversion problem. On top of ISK value, there's this subjective l337 factor. If it's important to you, why isn't it enough to evaluate killmails by your personal standards and beliefs... and why do you think it's necessary to change killmails for what they convey? They're already a record of engagements, isn't that sufficient?
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-02-28 09:08:34 UTC
Get rid of killboards.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-02-28 09:11:38 UTC
I think it would be interesting to have records of all acts of aggression, not just ones that resulted in kills. Attempted points, stalemates, damage tanked (successfully), docking games, can looting, etc.
vccv
#5 - 2015-02-28 09:14:35 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Get rid of killboards.


I 100% agree with this statement.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#6 - 2015-02-28 09:17:15 UTC
OP, feel free to:

a) make your own
b) stop worrying about KB stats
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-02-28 09:25:23 UTC
nah, you can't get rid of killboards... they're one of the few signs of EVE's activity to the outside world.
Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
#8 - 2015-02-28 10:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Exotic Matters
I'm not overly worried about killboards, but I do like to have some measure of how I am doing. As it stands the numbers only really tell me how much I play the game, not how well I am doing at it.

Having stats like I suggested would tend to reward blop gangs less, perhaps encourage people to fight more in smaller gangs as they would be rewarded for it in the numbers even if they lost more ships, making them less risk averse.

It's not like I would be on the top of any list no matter how you cooked the numbers, I'm mediocre at best, I just like to see better data.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-02-28 10:46:17 UTC
risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"

kids these days

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Justin Zaine
#10 - 2015-02-28 10:57:17 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"

kids these days


If we were talking about pvp'ers who refuse to fight impossible odds, you might have a point.

Alas, we are talking about guys who put 4 stabs and a cloak on their otherwise unfit D-plexing magnates.



He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#11 - 2015-02-28 10:58:24 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"

kids these days

In a game where there is nothing lost but enjoyment, it's not intelligent, it's just dumb and boring.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2015-02-28 11:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Exotic Matters wrote:
I'm not overly worried about killboards, but I do like to have some measure of how I am doing. As it stands the numbers only really tell me how much I play the game, not how well I am doing at it.

Having stats like I suggested would tend to reward blop gangs less, perhaps encourage people to fight more in smaller gangs as they would be rewarded for it in the numbers even if they lost more ships, making them less risk averse.

It's not like I would be on the top of any list no matter how you cooked the numbers, I'm mediocre at best, I just like to see better data.

"rewarded" ... you place value on killmails and consider them something rewarding if altered?

Ok, I get it. You're looking for something like a "solo kill" badge, or some other achievement type stat... ?
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#13 - 2015-02-28 13:40:22 UTC
Logi Pilots need love too 🚀‼️

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”

Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#14 - 2015-02-28 13:57:45 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.

but what would you then base the bounty pay out on ?

and nevermind the fact that the the killboards base the values from market trades and not what the ingame value says
Thorn en Distel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-28 14:04:48 UTC
Killboards are stupid. I have yet to play a game where they say anything about actual skill as a PVPer. Universally, you get people who pad their stats by killing their own alts, hunting low levels (who generally can't even hit a higher level), killing noncombattants or ganking small groups and solo players with large groups.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-02-28 14:14:40 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
nah, you can't get rid of killboards... they're one of the few signs of EVE's activity to the outside world.



Never heard anyone who doesn't play Eve ask about kill boards.

Only one who care are Eve players...and even then its not all Eve players.


I want to keep them because it gives me a laugh when I look at someones kill board and see nothing but ships that cant fight back. (mining/exploration ships, MTUs)
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-02-28 14:26:06 UTC
Gold stickers, get so many you get an award. Works on children to show they did something good....surprisingly the same mindset means that as an adult you are easily tricked with kill streaks and ratios like a 5 year old who made the bed or did their chores, means you didn't in fact grow up. Its an easy tactic for gaming companies (like FPS with kill streaks) to make money off idiots who are pulled in by "easy" awards to keep the player entertained. Said player forgets, its just a video game and needs something shiney to stay interested otherwise they just won't keep on playing....like a 5 year old who needs stickers and eventually a prize.

Don't know about you as I would rather enjoy just the game, killmails are stupid beyond player name and ship type (kill a cruiser in a frig for example)....any other stat is just something for mental masturbation material to distract you from enjoying the game to the point its just a job and a grind to be in the joe average above 50% percentile when in fact after awhile you realize you are just padding your score (like using isk) and beating down players that don't actually pose a challenge (at least in the sense of other games, EVE doesn't exactly have an honorable code of player combat Roll)
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-02-28 15:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Rain6637 wrote:
While we're on the topic of killmails for the sake of meaning, remove ISK values from in-game killmails to reduce some of the risk aversion that is so deeply ingrained in EVE's player culture.

Worrying about killboards is part of the risk aversion problem. On top of ISK value, there's this subjective l337 factor. If it's important to you, why isn't it enough to evaluate killmails by your personal standards and beliefs... and why do you think it's necessary to change killmails for what they convey? They're already a record of engagements, isn't that sufficient?


zKill and other 3rd party sites can extract regional average prices with CREST. This information will not disappear from any 3rd party killboard sites, even if it were removed in EVE. "Risk aversion" and "l337 factor" are social characteristics of gaming. Those won't be solved by altering killboards which impose no rule mechanics in EVE (like say.. clone grades did).

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2015-02-28 15:33:18 UTC
There are better selections of API information to yield based on player activity. More thoughtful, even. Some type of playstyle reputation system perhaps(more granular and descriptive than security status).

Like, hmm... Pilot Rating: Dangerous

or

Lone Wolf

or

Gangbanger.

Knawmeen gurrah?
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-02-28 15:42:18 UTC

Did you mean data aggregation?

http://eve-plh.com/

http://gankerlookout.com/

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

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