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Dev Blog: Balance Changes Coming In Scylla

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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-02-27 14:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
As discussed on the o7 show last night, there are a number of balance changes coming to EVE Online in Scylla. If you want to see who's blood CCP Nerf Bat is dripping with, you should read this new dev blog from CCP Rise.

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#2 - 2015-02-27 15:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Obil Que
So unfair to tease me with the blue Ishtar photo.

Otherwise, the changes seem quite appropriate

EDIT: FIRST!
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#3 - 2015-02-27 15:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
Would be interesting to see how much of the Battleship-pvp-damage is being done by drone ships, i.e. domis and rattlesnakes. Still think BS and BC should receive a little better warp speed. They would still be cought easily by things like ceptors etc.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-02-27 15:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
The only buff battleships really need is a nerf to bombers


Some warp speed would be nice to have though
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#5 - 2015-02-27 15:13:43 UTC
" None. We are pretty happy with the state of class variation right now and see no reason to make changes."

Ok guy
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2015-02-27 15:15:02 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselFinance
Quote:
Note: Shout-out here to CSM member mynnna for a great internal discussion on this topic. He raised the point that if you look at these weapon systems on their own, rather than comparing the ships using them, they look very balanced. It would follow then that the problem is more about Tengu, Eagle and Vulture than about rails. However, we can never look at weapon systems or ships without taking the other into consideration. The relationship between cap use of energy weapons and ships with cap use bonuses for energy weapons is another good example where trying to look at one without the other causes problems. We are therefore happy to consider balancing via the weapons or the ships depending on which fits the situation best. In this case, we are happy to use rails as the avenue because it is much simpler for us to design and you to adjust to.


"mynnna made a very, very good point"
"so we ignored it"
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#7 - 2015-02-27 15:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: War Kitten
The "awesome graph of PVP damage by class" needs some explanation of the various colors.

I'm also not convinced that total PVP damage, which is dominated by large fleet engagements, is a good metric for balancing ships that now suck at small-gang warfare due to lost mobility.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#8 - 2015-02-27 15:16:54 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:


"mynnna made a very, very good point"
"so we ignored it"


Yeah, I caught that too :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#9 - 2015-02-27 15:21:27 UTC
FUCK YEAH! DEATH TO SKYNET!

But anyhow, CCP Rise do you like White Russian? (The drink)
Because I do, and maybe you like it too.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#10 - 2015-02-27 15:23:05 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
The only buff battleships really need is a nerf to bombers


The parenthetical toward the end strongly implies that that's on its way.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-02-27 15:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Charts are nice, but you REALLY need to start putting legends on them. And some detail - do structure bashes count as "PvP" damage?

Also, the ship usage - what do the colours represent? What is the scale? Linear? Log?
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#12 - 2015-02-27 15:28:00 UTC
Give battleships immunity to the scramblers mwd effect and you would once again see this shipclass be used a lot more for solo stuff as they could once again compensate for tracking issues by using transversial to their advantage.

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#13 - 2015-02-27 15:28:11 UTC
rise if you look at the ship damage graph and you can clearly see two much more popular stealth bombers than the other 2 by and order of 100x or so if im reading this right [assuming different colours = different ships]

i know bomber internal class balance isn't really a priority, but the nemesis and manticore really need some love and the purifier really needs some hate imo

the fitting in particular is very different on these ships for no real reason - i'd suggest maybe standardising their fitting to a degree and giving purifier -1 mid +1 low while giving nemesis the opposite - that way you end up with a 4/2 bomber, two 3/3 bombers and a 2/4 bomber and maybe we'll see some variety

but like i said bomber internal balance probably isnt a priority

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-02-27 15:28:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Regarding the image for PVP damage per class: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66946/1/STEVE_7.png

Over what time period does this graph cover? I find the battleship damage quite hard to believe if it covers a period of time over a year or so.

e: also, if it isn't too much to ask, could you expand the battleship and combat battlecruiser graphs to show which colors represent which ships?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2015-02-27 15:31:55 UTC
Quote:
We took a fresh look at this issue to make sure we were on the same page as a game design department and this is how we approached it: we started by going over usage metrics and once again saw that clearly that both classes are getting heavy use and are being effective by any measure we have available.

I would like to see what the numbers are in null-sec, low-sec and high-sec for comparison. I suspect that you're going to see quite a bit of divergence.

Quote:
Note: look at those “Drake era” heavy missiles, goodness gracious!

Indeed. Also note how heavy missiles are now at the bottom of the chart, so it would seem that a slight damage/application buff is in order.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-02-27 15:31:57 UTC
"BATTLECRUISER AND BATTLESHIP VIABILITY

Problem: Strong community sentiment that battleships and battlecruisers are not viable currently and that the biggest reason is warp speed changes."

So I was with you until I read this.

Put the decloak mechanic back on bombers and you'll suddenly see increased use of Battleships.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#17 - 2015-02-27 15:32:25 UTC
Querns wrote:
Regarding the image for PVP damage per class: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66946/1/STEVE_7.png

Over what time period does this graph cover? I find the battleship damage quite hard to believe if it covers a period of time over a year or so.


when you consider on average a bs does a lot more damage individually than smaller ships, the graph starts to make sense. if there was close to equal representation, you'd expect bs to be a lot higher than say cruisers right

the real standout in the graph for me is stealth bomber internal class balance and attack battlecruisers being absolute trash - a class entirely about damage being so low on a damage chart is kind of worrying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2015-02-27 15:36:47 UTC
i have been polling anyone i can find about why battleships aren't used anymore and not one person has said "warp speed"

every single one has said "bombers"

who were these people you polled who told you the problem was warp speed?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-02-27 15:39:06 UTC
Capqu wrote:

the real standout in the graph for me is stealth bomber internal class balance and attack battlecruisers being absolute trash - a class entirely about damage being so low on a damage chart is kind of worrying

Eh, the stealth bomber graph isn't that odd to me -- explosive and EM damage are the best types of damage to shoot. I am not sure that is so much a problem with stealth bombers as it is indicative of resist holes being the primary driver of which bomb choice to pick (and the fact that mixing bomb damage actively neuters your bombing damage output.)

If a significant percentage of that damage was torpedo damage, I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but I am pretty confident that the greater majority of bomber damage comes in the form of bombing runs.

This is especially so considering that the main fleet ships are caldari (harpy, tengu) and gallente (ishtar), whose T2/T3 resists favor kin/therm significantly.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Halycon Gamma
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-02-27 15:42:29 UTC
What exactly do the colors for the lines mean in that damage graph? I ask because knowing may remove some of the doubts I have over the assumption that overall damage number is relevant when discussing Battleships. For instance, how much of that damage occurred during a bloc war battle. If battleships are seeing heavy usage there which inflates their damage statistics, but almost no usage outside of that specific use case... then it's possible there's a problem when an entire class of subcap ship is only pulled out for defending or attacking at a coalition level.
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