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Crime & Punishment

 
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Suspect timers for stealing loot

Author
Elana Apgar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-02-25 19:36:53 UTC
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.

So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-02-25 19:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Elana Apgar wrote:
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.

So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.



But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you.

So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-02-25 19:46:57 UTC
Elana Apgar wrote:
they can loot the wrecks without going suspect


No they can't. You can't even steal the stuff unless your safety is off. You have time to lock them up and instapop before they can move the loot to someone else. I see you tried this but clearly you were too slow!

Elana Apgar wrote:
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.


Agreed. If you purchase stolen goods from someone in a station, and undock without handing the "evidence" into the police, you should go suspect the instant you undock! This is fair right? Big smile
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-02-25 19:48:44 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Elana Apgar wrote:
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.

So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.



But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you.

So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.


Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-02-25 19:50:11 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Elana Apgar wrote:
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.

So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.



But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you.

So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.


Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


It is supposed to make about as much sense as the OP's idea.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Futt Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-02-25 21:18:32 UTC
OP's idea, assuming no LEGACYCODE problems, is simple.

Stolen items have a 'stolen' tag until the ship containing them docks in a station. Anyone who picks up an item with a 'stolen' tag is rendered suspect.


Black Pedro
Mine.
#7 - 2015-02-25 21:21:15 UTC
Elana Apgar wrote:
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

This seems more like a feature or idea you are proposing. But if you would like to discuss here, why would you want to do this even if it was even possible to code in the game?

This would make ganking much less profitable due to the lost loot and/or ships lost in the course of trying to grab the loot. Why would you want to take away the primary monetary incentive to a "profession" that CCP has coded into the game?

Elana Apgar wrote:
So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

It has been put into the game on purpose to provide some small amount of risk to haulers. A freighter can with modest effort avoid gankers (with a scout/webber, some tank and not overloading) with nearly 100% success. More importantly, the risk of freighters to bumping provides a slight disincentive for using an AFK hauler to move everything in highsec. Freighters need to have a weakness to offset their massive EHP, and that is to bumping.

Without bumping and loot recovery there would be practically no freighter ganking in highsec, just AFK freighters silently crossing highsec all day long. Do you really think this version of highsec, also absent of gankers and anti-gankers and the player-driven conflict they engage in would be an improvement for the game?
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-02-26 04:29:01 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Elana Apgar wrote:
People should acquire suspect timers when handling stolen loot. With the mechanics as is right now, people handling stolen loot don't get timers. It's like a logi pilot repping a suspect and not getting a timer.

For instance, I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.

The frigates went suspect but the pilot of the DST and the Charon did not. The frigates were able to dump the loot instantly so while we killed them too, there were no real repercussions for them (the gankers) because they never lost the loot at all.

So if ganking is allowed, bumping without aggression is allowed, and hyperdunking is allowed, AND they can loot the wrecks without going suspect, how is this whole thing not broken?

People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.



But the guy that stole did go suspect. He was just smarter than you.

So lets say they do implement something like that. If you kill the charon and take the loot that will then make you suspect as well. since now you also have stolen loot in the cargo hold.


Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


There is no good.

There is no bad.

There are only decisions and consequences.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-26 04:51:15 UTC

Elana Apgar wrote:
I was killing gankers in Uedama yesterday, and witnessed T1 frigates stealing loot from the wreck, who in turn dropped it into the fleet hangar of a Deep Space Transport (DST), then a Charon pulled the loot from the fleet hangar of the DST.


Seems like a lot of activity went down before you shot the looters. If all you're doing is shooting, you should be able to intercept the clunky Ship 1 -> Ship 2 -> Ship 3 transfer a bit faster..

Also, why not suicide them? It's an ISK war too, isn't it?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
#10 - 2015-02-26 09:05:07 UTC
I have a light bulb out on my thorax, should I be suspect for this?
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2015-02-26 11:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Since I'm done with my little ag stint, I'll share a secret. Anyone can do this. In fact it can be quite funny watching all the bumpers trying to keep t1 industrials and dst's away from the wreck. You want to hit CODE.'s margins? Get their loot. It is hands down the least efficient part of their freigther ganking process, and currently super easy to interfere with. If you can find one of their fleets up its not hard for a small group to make a bill or so off of their wrecks. Add some thrashers to pop anything you can't steal and you can actually impact the bottom line.

Of course the afore mentioned strategy actually requires intel and competent piloting so I wouldn't hold my breath on anyone doing it. The people that are trying to prevent the ganks are missing the point. Protect your own. Not random idiots that are too lazy to defend themselves. Eve is a game that relies on survival of the fittest, and I will say that scavengers can be just as fit as predators in nature's eyes.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#12 - 2015-02-26 15:26:57 UTC
I love watching the vultures creep close to the juicy freighter corpses when a CODE fleet is doing their thing.

The DST pilots tend to be the pro's, but there are enough greedy amatuers to feed mah passive locking Ishtar.

Bear

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Lennox Dantes
The Tyde
#13 - 2015-02-27 00:49:50 UTC
There was nothing wrong with the original suspect timers from the old can-flipping days. Bring those back and you will fix high-sec.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#14 - 2015-02-27 01:48:03 UTC
If it so concerns you, get a thrasher and pop the wreck.

If you play by the rules of Hi Sec, expect to be inconvenienced by them from time to time.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#15 - 2015-02-27 06:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Ideally any stolen loot would result in a suspect flag until the loot is docked up, which means the DST and the Charon should turn suspect if they are in possession of the loot. The consequence of looting yellow wrecks is a suspect flag. If you can sacrifice a cheap, tanked Nereus to transfer all the loot to a safe DST the suspect flag becomes rather irrelevant.

The question is whether this is possible to achieve or not without a major rewrite of the code.

Black Pedro wrote:
This would make ganking much less profitable due to the lost loot and/or ships lost in the course of trying to grab the loot. Why would you want to take away the primary monetary incentive to a "profession" that CCP has coded into the game?
Losing ships and loot will decrease the monetary incentive of any activity. That's the name of the game.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#16 - 2015-02-27 13:21:28 UTC
So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-02-27 13:30:06 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.


All of them? Lol
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#18 - 2015-02-27 13:42:14 UTC
This sounds like a really good idea. It's very realistic, as far as the crime/consequence relationship goes.

I'd be absolutely in favor of implementing this, as long as we also make summoning CONCORD for a crime in progress a manual action, just like calling the police is in real life.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#19 - 2015-02-27 13:48:00 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with.

Once again I must question if you actually play this game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-02-27 14:03:27 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
If it so concerns you, get a thrasher and pop the wreck.

If you play by the rules of Hi Sec, expect to be inconvenienced by them from time to time.


This. Suicide the wreck and deny the billions that lay within. Pirate
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