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Dev blog: UI Modernization - Icon Strategy

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Chiho Hareka
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2015-02-27 09:03:28 UTC
As has been said, but cannot be overemphasized, there is too much distinction among the new icons.

It is too difficult to distinguish between similar sized types. And the very small detail distinctions are almost useless, they make it far too cluttered.

Please, simpler shapes, fewer sizes. Use some sort of accent or top line above a basic shape to indicate a "heavy" version of a basic ship size (e.g., for destroyer or battle cruiser, use frigate with line above, cruiser with line above). The line could be contoured to match the basic shape. Others have suggested comprehensive schemes.

The point of a UI should be to simplify complex information, not preserve the complexity.

Could you use bright/dim distinctions rather than color to distinguish foe/friend ? Or use reverse "coloring", e.g., instead of a clear or empty field as background, use a filled or white field, with dark/black shapes?

Anyway, from past experience in other games, I can tell that your proposed new graphics scheme will be far more confusing than helpful.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#102 - 2015-02-27 09:09:26 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:

Secondary Suns exist in (some) WH's.


Nah these are system-wide effects. Or did I miss something??

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Yuri Pyrrhus
Slavic Totem
Can i bring my Drake...
#103 - 2015-02-27 09:11:38 UTC
I don't know if someone already have suggested it, but maybe it will be better if player ships' icons will be unfilled (just border) and NPC icons will be filled and without extra "plus" on the side.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#104 - 2015-02-27 09:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Really good work, it's a welcome upgrade and it seems to be well thought out. However, using the same icon for mining barges and haulers is a bit weird, that really needs to be specified better.
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-02-27 09:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nami Kumamato
Information overload from my point of view.
I am now considering my rejection/dismay step to be finished and I still don't like them.

If CCP wants to redesign the tactical info of UI I suggest drawing inspiration from Homeworld 2's super practical tactical overlay.
(that game was and still is too good in way too many aspects - think it was made by the gods)
Or from any military tactical overlay (tip: they all use geometric symbols as they are easily recognizable and situations like "What is that?" "Well sir it's a square with a accolade on it's rights side" "great it's an APC - waste them!" "Oops sir, that accolade is actually just a parenthesis" "good job private we're now engaging a tank destroyer ffs..." are greatly reduced...)

However if there is an option to turn it off or keep the old one - I'm satisfied.

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Nishachara
Stillwater Corporation
#106 - 2015-02-27 09:43:18 UTC
The icons seem to small on first glance, or to indistinguishable on smaller screens, maybe by adding vertical one, two or three lines through the icon for various sizes would make it more distinguishable.
Also on your screenshot there is a true sansha battleship, can you put two +-s on npc faction ships, so they can be a bit more easely distinguished.
Also on your screenshot there is no +-s on the icons of npc ships.
Merritt
Misfits of Eve
#107 - 2015-02-27 09:53:18 UTC
♦ This is... a ship?
♦ This is some kind of other ship?
♦ Oh, this is a container. Yeah.
♦ OOH, got this one, this is a drone.
♦ Ah, yeah. NPC supercap.
♦ Another container, but this one has a password set from 3 years ago and is currently on fire. (How?)
♦ Corpse.
♦ Pod.
♦ Wreck!
♦ Yup. Station. I'm getting good at this game!
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#108 - 2015-02-27 09:57:40 UTC
I really like the new in-space icons. It has logic and structure. What I don't like is the lack of color in the menu's. If you want to click an icon, you need to find it first. A shape is a good start, but a color will make it stand out even more. So why would you remove something that makes it easier to select an icon ? I don't see the logic in this decision.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2015-02-27 09:58:42 UTC
F
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as an exercise in intuitive design, guess what ship classes those represent.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#110 - 2015-02-27 10:45:07 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Getting used to the new NEOCOM symbols still, but I think over time, everyone will adjust, nice work.


I hate to break this to you, you will get older and your eyes will become less able to differentiate individual pixels.

So If adjusting means flying with your nose pressed against the monitor, then You may have a point but then ships attacking you from behind your left ear, will ruin your day.Roll

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#111 - 2015-02-27 10:52:47 UTC
Thebriwan wrote:
+1000

Awesome!

Edit: After reading some of the other comments:

That "I can not distinguish them from another" sound like bullshit to me. Why?

a) The new icons are MUCH better, then the ones we have now.
b) Small screen anyone? Get a life! (Ahem a new display?)
c) I need so memorize the different shapes! Seriously? Go play WoW!

There was a time when the line "Harden the f*** up" was what defined an eve player.
To much wining today!


Yeah! Toughen up you wimp get younger... What? Shocked

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Geanos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2015-02-27 11:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Geanos
I suggest you guys take a look at World of Tanks tank type icons. They are clearly visible and extremely easy to recognize at any resolution.

It would also be a good idea to use only 1 type of icon for each caps and supers. No point of having distinct icons for carrier and dreads or supers and titans. Unless you want to get rid of the "Type" column (and others maybe?) and create a compact overview.

It would also make sense to use green and blue colors for faction and deadspace rats, to be consistent with module type icons. Unless you would consider it an unfair advantage for non-color blind players.
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#113 - 2015-02-27 11:16:29 UTC
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:

With 4K and even 5K monitors on the horizon we need to be ready and we want to be. So even though our current overview only gives us so much to work with, our design effort is to have icons that have a good base logic for their style and shapes which can work in various sizes once it becomes possible.

This argument feels like a straw man....

What % of your clientele do you believe will own 4k-5k monitors in that time...versus the number that will still be running just over min-specs?

Of those that will be running Eve on 4k-5k monitors, how many of them are doing it for the sole purpose of enlarging the icon column of their overview, versus the number that will have their overview take up the same space as now, but use the extra resolution for...SPACE SHIPS AND SPACE!


I was pointing out the fact that we need to be ready to support larger versions of all icons once 4K and 5K monitors become mainstream, because on those monitors, the current icons actually look much smaller than on regular monitors. So I was agreeing with the problem of the size but reassuring players it is our plan to address it because it will become an even bigger issue with 4K and 5K monitors.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow
V0LC4N3
eve unbound
Juggernaut.
#114 - 2015-02-27 11:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: V0LC4N3
I like the stylisation but I feel you have overcomplicated them to they will actually make things more difficult. If you have the time have a read of: http://www.rogercooper.com/documents/FILE_N_1000508.pdf

It may not be directly applicable but the principles are the same. Good work though but I really recommend you move the "+" for neutrals to a colour designation.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#115 - 2015-02-27 11:21:08 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
F
AF
BC
C
HA
HI
BS
DS
DN
CA
MS
T
RE
L
T3
ID
MA
JF
RQ

as an exercise in intuitive design, guess what ship classes those represent.

That was my first thought, too. But it only works in English. Or possibly American.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#116 - 2015-02-27 11:29:12 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
This is something I would never have thought to do, and that will be *very* annoying for a couple of weeks after rollout, but should be a good change in the medium to long term.

Edit: With respect to small screens - these will look bad, but probably still provide more information than the current icons do, particularly for ships. Cruisers and battlecruisers having the same icon at present is particularly bad.

As if you PvF (player vs freighter) players need to distinguish them, freighters aside. Of all people you should welcome those, because they make your one and only target very distinguishable.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#117 - 2015-02-27 11:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nami Kumamato
Zappity wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
F
AF
BC
C
HA
HI
BS
DS
DN
CA
MS
T
RE
L
T3
ID
MA
JF
RQ

as an exercise in intuitive design, guess what ship classes those represent.

That was my first thought, too. But it only works in English. Or possibly American.


I'm pretty convinced that the vast majority of the other languages on planet Earth have indeed discovered by now the use of acronyms...and since most of them have an established designation for ships in their own dictionaries I don't see the problem.
(ex. RO: Distrugator [DI/DS], EN: Destroyer[DE/DS], FR: Contre-Torpilleur/Destructuer [CT/DE/DS] )

CCP could add the specific acronym for each ship class based on the localization.

Also see for more juicy bits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_classification_symbol

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#118 - 2015-02-27 11:52:09 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:

With 4K and even 5K monitors on the horizon we need to be ready and we want to be. So even though our current overview only gives us so much to work with, our design effort is to have icons that have a good base logic for their style and shapes which can work in various sizes once it becomes possible.

This argument feels like a straw man....

What % of your clientele do you believe will own 4k-5k monitors in that time...versus the number that will still be running just over min-specs?

Of those that will be running Eve on 4k-5k monitors, how many of them are doing it for the sole purpose of enlarging the icon column of their overview, versus the number that will have their overview take up the same space as now, but use the extra resolution for...SPACE SHIPS AND SPACE!


I was pointing out the fact that we need to be ready to support larger versions of all icons once 4K and 5K monitors become mainstream, because on those monitors, the current icons actually look much smaller than on regular monitors. So I was agreeing with the problem of the size but reassuring players it is our plan to address it because it will become an even bigger issue with 4K and 5K monitors.

Makes sense.. plan and implement something now so it looks good on monitors 4 or 5 years from now.
I wonder - when 4k and 5k monitors become mainstream, will eve still be running on single thread code?
Planning for something to be mainstream 4 or 5 years down the track, using 10 year old outdated single thread code. How much foresight CCP has shown, it just boggles the mind.

NB; yes value for $ 4k and 5 k monitors will be "available" in under 5 years (maybe) but certainly won't be "mainstream". Right now the benchmark is around $1 per pixel = $4,000 for a 4k television which most platforms won't support, unless you have a $3,000 graphics card to run your 4k @1080p (optimal settings). 4 years from now production will have caught up with technology so your new icons may be warranted and appreciated by a minority of the player base who play 1 character on a highend machine.

I actually preferred it when Devs didn't tell us their logic and reasoning - It just makes no sense and is not at all logical from a mass player base point of view.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Tiberizzle
Your Mom Heavy Industries
#119 - 2015-02-27 11:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberizzle
the idea is good but the icons as they are all look blurry and misshapen, actually quite terrible

particularly on the frigate and cruiser images, the poor choice of angles (angles that translate into integer pixel ratio slopes are best for extremely low resolution graphics) for the low resolution and use of very fine angled detail for differentiating features are not scaling well at all to the low icon resolutions and the images become so blurry / antialiased after scaling that it's awkward to even differentiate between the cruiser and frigate icons, nevermind the cruiser and frigate subtypes

the cruiser image appears to have its vertex like at like 2/5 - 3/5 of a pixel boundary causing it to lose vertex detail and appear to bulge on one side, i think this is a common mistake across all of them because they all seem to have a misshapen feel but i didnt bother scaling all of them up and taking a close look

basically they all looks like **** and are painful to even behold try harder or leave them the way they are
V0LC4N3
eve unbound
Juggernaut.
#120 - 2015-02-27 11:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: V0LC4N3
I was messing around with this ages ago into what was readable for a large body of tracks. Hence why I looked at the earlier link. Here are some examples: https://plus.google.com/photos/108351318484677285762/albums/6120491555049955457 (red hostile, blue friendly, green neutral etc)

Note the shape and colour change to identify hostility. The bottom right is deliberately notched so that something else could be placed in there eg a square or dot to show whether that ship has you targeted. Or a coloured dot showing what type of EW they have on you etc. The centre ship icon sucks compared to yours I know.

The point though is you can see at a glance;

Hostility - identified by different shapes and colours
Craft Type - identified by lettering and inner ship shape icon

Good luck with it all I loved looking at this type of stuff ages ago.