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Becomming Suspect on entering FW Complex

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-02-26 18:49:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I only have one account so ganking for profit would be unworkable.
You have heard of friends right?


This gets trotted out every time someone is defending their alt-dependent gameplay.

The reason people use alts is to fulfill a task so boring that no human player wants to do it full time.
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-02-26 19:02:54 UTC
-1 unsupported

no isk without risk, sandbox, etc.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#23 - 2015-02-26 19:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Tasnala Estidal wrote:
Then set Mr. Safety to orange red and press f1, sec status be damned. Sounds like to me you want to do what " filthy pirate scum" do, but don't want to man up to the price of your desires. All those fw points should buy you a set of tags easy. Shoot everyone, buy tags, profit.

FIFY.

Back in my FW days, you shot everything and worked it out later. No fancy Tag4Sec... you had to spend HOURS in null-sec in Stealth Bombers with buddies... avoiding bubbles... scaring ratters... hiding from hotdropping response fleets... all to kill 1 NPC battleship per system.

Eventually you stopped caring. You learned how much NICER it was to just live in low-sec full-time. You gain experience... you become more bloodthirsty... you create an alt character on the same account and train him (by pausing your main character's skill queue) to haul things and run missions... you become efficient at making money in low-sec.

And soon you forget why you would ever want to go back to high-sec... aside from suicide ganking some poor sob because you decided they deserve it (you are not sure why, but you know that if you dig through his/her history you'll find something).

How did you Veterans start?
Paranoid Loyd
#24 - 2015-02-26 19:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I only have one account so ganking for profit would be unworkable.
You have heard of friends right?


This gets trotted out every time someone is defending their alt-dependent gameplay.

The reason people use alts is to fulfill a task so boring that no human player wants to do it full time.

I'm not defending my game play, everyone should play how they like. With that said, I have no need to defend it. If you choose to have one account that is fine but that in no way means you can't gank for profit.

The tactics involved in successfully ganking for profit are infinitely more engaging than orbiting a button for profit. But it does take patience and forethought.

Freighters are ganked for profit on a daily basis, very few if any of those groups are multiboxed anymore.

More on topic:
If you want to orbit a button with the intention of getting fights why would you worry about a minuscule sec status hit that can be easily fixed with cheap sec status tags or a few minutes of ratting?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#25 - 2015-02-26 19:32:08 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Even going with your example, civilians exsist in war zones and areas of conflict. Military members are not allowed to simply open fire without provocation.


Most reporters and civilians in war zones... arent armed.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-02-26 19:54:09 UTC
I have to say that as someone with a good backround in FW I support the spirit of the idea, I need to point out that this is moot with the advent of sec tags. Sure it costs isk, but y'all make enough already that it's not a problem to buy one every so often to help your standing. I never had a problem with shooting anything that wasn't blue that came in my plex, although that's probably just me being trigger-happy lol. Twisted
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#27 - 2015-02-27 03:20:01 UTC
Honestly, I also think maybe Neutral (as in npc corp) players should get a flag of some sort if they are intefereing with FW Zones.

A player corp should not however....so if one is a pirate group...militas should just dec them and be done with it.

Now as to an earlier comment.....FW is not about the capsuleers....read your lore study the Emergency Concord descision that allowed the Empires to field Capsuleer militias....its for the resources in lo-sec for the Empires and to keep capsuleers away from key places in highsec.....basically playgrounds for the sociopaths.
Flash Thomson
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#28 - 2015-02-27 10:55:09 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Either


A.) wait for them to fire on you
or
B.) man up and take the sec hit



I generally go with option B although it has done me little good, I simply still suck at PvP =D
(If you want a good laugh check out my killboard =) )

My point is, I am there fighting for the State and yes also for my personal profit and I am sure all off you guys make great profits from it, me not so much... I loose to many ships, trying to find the right one =D
And you know what that's fine! I am having fun...
But lets talk about carrying the cost of defending my self, apart from working to get a new ship and mods, I don't have the time and will to farm for something I personally consider should not happen in the first place.

But lets turn this around.

What are you afraid of Mr. Pirate? You come here to fight! You where going to take the Sec hit anyway, what do you care if you get tagged as Criminal when entering a plex?

Oh you might not get to fire the first volley?
Who is the chicken now?

So I stand by it, you do not participate in FW? You get flagged as Criminal entering a plex! Easy as that! Fair fight good night!

Tanking since 1982

Reporting Caldari Faction Warfare news on www.caldarinews.wordpress.com
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#29 - 2015-02-27 11:01:12 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

If you want aggressors to pick up Criminal flag, then you should be a miner. Sounds like farming is something you're into.



What methods of ISK generation do you not consider farming then? .01 station games? We all have to pay for our pvp somehow, unless you can consistently solo pimpfit faction ships or you buy PLEX every month.

Get off your high horse about farming, everyone had to do it. As long as he's doing it in a combat ship and not a quad-stabbed merlin I see no problem.

I don't do any PVE for isk. Get off your high horse and go gank someone. Blink


P v E for fun
P v P just for the ISK
Chuck Norris: my b!tch

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
takedoom
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-02-27 16:50:44 UTC
The whole point of FW was to get noobs to go to low sec.

http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
The Newface
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-02-27 16:54:16 UTC
Disagree with the OP

There is no need to make FW easier, low sec is dangerous places.

from a in game perspective, concord has nothing to do with FW per say.
Ben Ishikela
#32 - 2015-02-27 18:19:46 UTC
Maybe you should rename "criminal" with "suspect".
Flagged:
Also in Missions.
Also upon entering any accelerationgate.
Also in highsec for more contest there ... Twisted
Then those ignorant posters here would see better.

BUT i want to point out some things:
Sec status hit or not. It does not affect difficulty at all. Why do people still think that?!
Its just the costs that increases. 1point of sec is worth around 50milion for someone that wants to have a "high sec"-status.
But then there is this little trigger of "-5". When people do not have enough money to buy the sec back and then train an alt for support and then go on to multicharacter play, they can truly enjoy the game of "shoot everyone". Then they have manned up.
Its funny how FW does this atm: Guiding new players on a path to become criminals and leave highsec. yay!

Now if players could join FW on the pirate faction side, if they have -5sec as requirement, there could be some incentive to go to Null through it. Which would be great!

So to conclude: Lore- and Justice- perceivedwise i would agree to put suspect flags on entering "neutrals". BUT the benefit it brings to the gameplay progression of new players is just toooooo big like it is right now!

Now maybe OP sees better.

PS.: i recently bought tag4sec for WH logistic as i thought it would help me fly expensive ships from market to my homesystem. but i could do it with the hauler alt much easier. I consider it lost money now.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#33 - 2015-02-27 21:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
To be quite honest, they should really re-think the whole sec status and criminal flag system for lowsec. They did step a few things back but others they left full on.

Since it is a lower security status system, they security penalties should all be stepped down by the same margin. For example, shooting someone's ship that you have no right to shoot.

Hi-sec: You are flagged criminal, take a standings hit for the aggression, a secondary standings hit for ship destruction, and concord blows you up.

Low-sec (currently): You are flagged suspect (1 step down from criminal), take standings hit for the aggression, a secondary standings hit for ship destruction (same standings penalties as hi-sec)

Low-sec (how it should be): You are flagged suspect (1 step down from criminal), only take a security hit if you bow up their ship (but smaller than the hi-sec ship destruction hit)

That way it transitions nicely into null where you have no flags and no security penalties...

This would greatly reduce your anxiety to fire first. And with all things crimewatch, low sec stuff would just be a whole step down, so like repping someone in a limited engagement that would normally yield you as suspect, now won't... so no more penalizing the logi pilots on a roam anymore. If under the current system the pilots flying in a roam can avoid being flagged by not shooting first, there needs to be an option for logi pilots as well. This actual gradiation of security penalties and crimewatch states from hi to low to null would solve that issue.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#34 - 2015-02-28 00:30:20 UTC
+1 to op

about easier isk/ lp if i want more lp i do fw missions not plexes
about being carebear - nothing changes for me in lowsec with OP change.... pirates still can come on me in plex if they want, i still can be killed at gates etc ....
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-02-28 04:40:16 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I only have one account so ganking for profit would be unworkable.
You have heard of friends right?


This gets trotted out every time someone is defending their alt-dependent gameplay.

The reason people use alts is to fulfilll a task so boring that no human player wants to do it full time.

I'm not defending my game play, everyone should play how they like. With that said, I have no need to defend it. If you choose to have one account that is fine but that in no way means you can't gank for profit.

The tactics involved in successfully ganking for profit are infinitely more engaging than orbiting a button for profit. But it does take patience and forethought.

Freighters are ganked for profit on a daily basis, very few if any of those groups are multiboxed anymore.

More on topic:
If you want to orbit a button with the intention of getting fights why would you worry about a minuscule sec status hit that can be easily fixed with cheap sec status tags or a few minutes of ratting?


Ganking for profit is not difficult once you understand how to get around the crimewatch mechanics. I could make decent ISK ganking untanked barges in 0.5 systems if I had another account to scoop loot. It just doesn't appeal to me. It seems very much like PvE as you can simply scan the target, figure out if you have the DPS to pop them before concordokken, f1 and scoop loot with alt. The margins are pretty good if you can use a t1 fit catalyst and the loot fairy isn't on her period.

If you make your money that way, fine. I'm just tired of seeing an elitist attitude towards people who "farm" at PvE so they can afford to risk things other than tech 1 frigates and destroyers against people who actually shoot back.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#36 - 2015-02-28 04:54:00 UTC
+1 OP

spending 70mil to drop my sec for shooting nub neutral pods because I DID shoot first, and last.

want to shoot a FW pilot inside a FW plex, join FW. If not, be flagged and prepared to lose your ship. Who, in their right mind, lets somebody pull to their optimal ranges, after they see your weapon system, and before they shoot you? Anyone that doesn't see the reason in that is being foolish.
ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#37 - 2015-02-28 09:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ACESsiggy
I brought this up in chat once but was shut down... I like your thinking thoughπŸ˜‰ but hopefully πŸ”œπŸ”œπŸ”œ

At least remove standing loss for FW pilots ((inside FW plexes)).

β€œThe open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#38 - 2015-02-28 09:24:21 UTC
Oh, it's this thread again. More easy-mode pirates.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#39 - 2015-02-28 11:21:58 UTC
Flash Thomson wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

If you want aggressors to pick up Criminal flag, then you should be a miner. Sounds like farming is something you're into.



Not sure, if I haven't been clear! This is exactly what I don't want! I don't want to have to farm to get my security rating up again! I want to be able to shoot any enemy in a plex regardless of Faction Warfare enemy or filthy Pirate scum...


if you are concerned with your security status then FW is not for you! use alts for any hisec activity.

Just Add Water
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#40 - 2015-02-28 14:12:30 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Flash Thomson wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

If you want aggressors to pick up Criminal flag, then you should be a miner. Sounds like farming is something you're into.



Not sure, if I haven't been clear! This is exactly what I don't want! I don't want to have to farm to get my security rating up again! I want to be able to shoot any enemy in a plex regardless of Faction Warfare enemy or filthy Pirate scum...


if you are concerned with your security status then FW is not for you! use alts for any hisec activity.


That is a statement of conformity, that somehow you have come to accept that taking part in your militia should logically, eventually, bar you from entering the same space you fight to protect.