These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

o7 skynet

First post
Author
Allant Doran
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2015-02-26 23:40:38 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Allant Doran wrote:
Citadel Missiles look too fantastic to not use.

Oh boy, I have some bad news for you.


I said 'look', which is subjective, and therefore true to me.

I'm one of those players that doesn't care if his gameplay style is optimal, or even useful. I'll spend my isk on things I think look pretty :D
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-02-26 23:44:01 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
So the new "Most Useless Ship in the Game" award goes to the Thanatos?


No, think of a thanny as a field command ship with a 1800 dps and a monster tank, that you can refit of, that carries spare ships like sabres, spare items like warp bubbles, ammo, drones, cap charges, etc., and that can go into triage in a pinch.

thats what a carrier shouls be - 1 repper, triage, 3 links. Try breaking that in a medium gang. And not terribly expensive either, just slow as hell.


And why not Archon or Chimera? They do all that except 20% less DPS (but the same with sentries or non fighters), but tanks far better, and can participate in the cap circle jerk.

It's not that the Thanatos would be the worst ship in the game, it's that it wold become as niche as the Nidhoggur that you only dust off on rare occasions where you are not expecting any resistance.


Depends what you are doing. I use nidhoggur in the dps/link role every now and again in wormholes.

thanny has range bonus for armor and shield transfer, which is suitable for a kitchen sink roam with no set tank. Nidhoggur is more agile and a better repper, but thanny is more dps.

Archon/chimera is more suitable for pre-set doctrines.
Ele Rebellion
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-02-26 23:44:05 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Ele Rebellion wrote:
So the new "Most Useless Ship in the Game" award goes to the Thanatos?


No, think of a thanny as a field command ship with a 1800 dps and a monster tank, that you can refit of, that carries spare ships like sabres, spare items like warp bubbles, ammo, drones, cap charges, etc., and that can go into triage in a pinch.

thats what a carrier shouls be - 1 repper, triage, 3 links. Try breaking that in a medium gang. And not terribly expensive either, just slow as hell.


Why field links? Plus Thanatos gets no bonus to links. OGB Commandships and T3s will still fill that role. Thanatos doesn't have near the tank of the Archon or the Chimera, and nothing close to the reps of the Nidhoggur.

The only thing it had going for it was DPS, but most people don't field carriers unless they are triage in which case they cannot use drones or fighters.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-02-26 23:45:03 UTC
I'm wondering why this is being addressed right now, after all this time. A couple things that come to mind are Sov and Drifters. Possibly related.

CCP's motivation behind med clone cost removal was very self-serving. Yes, it was to the benefit of players, and for something new in the game (Drifters/Circadians podding us), but there was constant player support of their removal for years. That's why I call the change self-serving.

Applying this possibility to other things on the horizon, like Sov and Drifters, the outcomes I imagine are comical.

Killing Drifters will be necessary for maintaining Sov, or the new Sov system involves a grind mechanic that is exceptionally exploitable by something like fighter assist.
Allant Doran
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2015-02-26 23:49:14 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm wondering why this is being addressed right now, after all this time. A couple things that come to mind are Sov and Drifters. Possibly related.

CCP's motivation behind med clone cost removal was very self-serving. Yes, it was to the benefit of players, and for something new in the game (Drifters/Circadians podding us), but there was constant player support of their removal for years. That's why I call the change self-serving.

Applying this possibility to other things on the horizon, like Sov and Drifters, the outcomes I imagine are comical.

Killing Drifters will be necessary for maintaining Sov, or the new Sov system involves a grind mechanic that is exceptionally exploitable by something like fighter assist.


This is my overarching feeling on the whole thing too.

It's like how removing the harsher penalties for being podded has allowed CCP to introduce NPCs that aim for the pod too.

I can't help but wonder if reducing Fighter capability in this regard is setting up for either a new gameplay mechanic that will make sense of this change, or it is in preparation for a general Carrier-class overhaul in the upcoming months.
Gypsien Agittain
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-02-26 23:57:48 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Gypsien Agittain wrote:
I understand the reasoning towards eliminating fighter assist, but removing their ability to warp...
Have you ever checked the cost, size and attributes of a ******* fighter?

Do you ever think what you do or just roll a dice? Does any of the developers actually play the game? Another absurd change to totally **** your most loyal players, capital ones.
Just remind who are the guys playing the games for years: the same people you keep on ruining game experience for the last 6 months.


Guys that play the game in capitals dont give a damn about the fighter cost. 15-20mil per fighter is peanuts, chump change.

And if you count the cost of fighters, you should not be using them.


Peanuts in isk, but half a plex cost in a super for 10 fb's getting lost + the logistical "issue" of getting a bomber set into your ship with the proficient and glorious space aids cap-fuckery system.
Given that in a recent post you declared that you fly a Niddhogur, there's nothing else to be said as you're clearly disabled to discuss about capital ships.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#47 - 2015-02-27 00:04:44 UTC
Gypsien Agittain wrote:

Given that in a recent post you declared that you fly a Niddhogur, there's nothing else to be said as you're clearly disabled to discuss about capital ships.


Nids have their niche - their local burst rep capabilities and bonused remote rep can be pretty useful for surprise attacks outnumbered where your working on the premise of crippling the other fleet before they are organised enough to turn the tables i.e. log on ambushing a multi-dread escalation fleet.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#48 - 2015-02-27 00:07:43 UTC
Allant Doran wrote:

It's like how removing the harsher penalties for being podded has allowed CCP to introduce NPCs that aim for the pod too.

I can't help but wonder if reducing Fighter capability in this regard is setting up for either a new gameplay mechanic that will make sense of this change, or it is in preparation for a general Carrier-class overhaul in the upcoming months.


Seeing how the industry expansion panned out; with the lost promise of another capital class ship rework (rorqual) that is 9 months overdue, the removal of one of it's most touted 'Teams' feature, the removal of Tech 3 Reverse Engineering and the glorious new Industrial UI, which is really really really big and cumbersome, once you've run a BPO three times and just want to see the input and output in text instead of long lines, big icons, huge buttons and a lot of wasted screen estate. Let's not forget the removal of slots, so everyone and his production alts can produce in Jita IV-4, never having to leave station for anything.

I won't get my hopes up. (looking back at it, they removed about as much gameplay as they added in the industrial patches)

Baddest poster ever

Gypsien Agittain
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-02-27 00:08:11 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Gypsien Agittain wrote:

Given that in a recent post you declared that you fly a Niddhogur, there's nothing else to be said as you're clearly disabled to discuss about capital ships.


Nids have their niche - their local burst rep capabilities and bonused remote rep can be pretty useful for surprise attacks outnumbered where your working on the premise of crippling the other fleet before they are organised enough to turn the tables i.e. log on ambushing a multi-dread escalation fleet.


A delusionary niche created by the superb failure of purchasing a Minmatar Carrier skillbook and the lack of interest in spending another 500M and >50 days to train for a real ship.
Allant Doran
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2015-02-27 00:10:53 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
Allant Doran wrote:

It's like how removing the harsher penalties for being podded has allowed CCP to introduce NPCs that aim for the pod too.

I can't help but wonder if reducing Fighter capability in this regard is setting up for either a new gameplay mechanic that will make sense of this change, or it is in preparation for a general Carrier-class overhaul in the upcoming months.


Seeing how the industry expansion panned out; with the lost promise of another capital class ship rework (rorqual) that is 9 months overdue, the removal of one of it's most touted 'Teams' feature, the removal of Tech 3 Reverse Engineering and the glorious new Industrial UI, which is really really really big and cumbersome, once you've run a BPO three times and just want to see the input and output in text instead of long lines, big icons, huge buttons and a lot of wasted screen estate. Let's not forget the removal of slots, so everyone and his production alts can produce in Jita IV-4, never having to leave station for anything.

I won't get my hopes up. (looking back at it, they removed about as much gameplay as they added in the industrial patches)


A fair point. I'm just doing what I do best, trying to find a silver lining haha!
Don Pera Saissore
#51 - 2015-02-27 00:20:38 UTC
Could someone link the video please.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#52 - 2015-02-27 00:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Gypsien Agittain wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Gypsien Agittain wrote:

Given that in a recent post you declared that you fly a Niddhogur, there's nothing else to be said as you're clearly disabled to discuss about capital ships.


Nids have their niche - their local burst rep capabilities and bonused remote rep can be pretty useful for surprise attacks outnumbered where your working on the premise of crippling the other fleet before they are organised enough to turn the tables i.e. log on ambushing a multi-dread escalation fleet.


A delusionary niche created by the superb failure of purchasing a Minmatar Carrier skillbook and the lack of interest in spending another 500M and >50 days to train for a real ship.

Nidhoggur also has a niche in being the fastest and most agile carrier, which is relevant for rage rolling wormholes in c5 and c6 space, as Nidhoggur can burn from spawn point to wormhole activation range in hostile environments where slower capitals would die. It also saves you valuable time.

Speed fit Nidhoggur goes some 300m/s and aligns surprisingly fast. This is an extremely narrow niche that is useful to just a few corporations in all of EVE, but it IS a niche. Nanoggur is a beautiful thing, in a very perverted way, like an oiled fat grandpa in a thong.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#53 - 2015-02-27 00:38:07 UTC
Keeping the abilty of fighters to warp, maybe not by following a target, but to return tot he carrier if it warps off without its fighters, or it disconnects, should remain. As an ex carrier and super pilot, losing 200m is fighters (10 fighters X20m each) cause i had to run or forget to pull them in will make me cry.

yes tears.. *cries*

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2015-02-27 00:39:07 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Gypsien Agittain wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Gypsien Agittain wrote:

Given that in a recent post you declared that you fly a Niddhogur, there's nothing else to be said as you're clearly disabled to discuss about capital ships.


Nids have their niche - their local burst rep capabilities and bonused remote rep can be pretty useful for surprise attacks outnumbered where your working on the premise of crippling the other fleet before they are organised enough to turn the tables i.e. log on ambushing a multi-dread escalation fleet.


A delusionary niche created by the superb failure of purchasing a Minmatar Carrier skillbook and the lack of interest in spending another 500M and >50 days to train for a real ship.

Nidhoggur also has a niche in being the fastest and most agile carrier, which is relevant for rage rolling wormholes in c5 and c6 space, as Nidhoggur can burn from spawn point to wormhole activation range in hostile environments where slower capitals would die. It also saves you valuable time.

Speed fit Nidhoggur goes some 300m/s and aligns surprisingly fast. This is an extremely narrow niche that is useful to just a few corporations in all of EVE, but it IS a niche. Nanoggur is a beautiful thing, in a very perverted way, like an oiled fat grandpa in a thong.

dafuq, nidhoggur speedfit goes faster than my paladin?

shouldnt have mentioned that mate, didnt you know? capitals are supposed to be worse than a subcap in every way except when fighting stationary structures that cant shoot back. incoming nidhoggur nerf, enjoy your 15m/s max speed-fit
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#55 - 2015-02-27 00:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
DaReaper wrote:
Keeping the abilty of fighters to warp, maybe not by following a target, but to return tot he carrier if it warps off without its fighters, or it disconnects, should remain. As an ex carrier and super pilot, losing 200m is fighters (10 fighters X20m each) cause i had to run or forget to pull them in will make me cry.

yes tears.. *cries*


All it needed really was making it so that you can't assign* fighters within a certain proximity (say 50km or something) of a control tower (the code is already there anyhow) due to "harmonic distortion" from POS mods or some other reason for the somewhat arbitrary restriction and giving fighters damage scaling based on target sig like titans and most of the biggest issues are fixed in a balanced way rather than taking the nerf bat to it and destroying part of the game for people who are entirely unconnected to the "skynet" issue.




* *cough* cough* assist *cough*
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#56 - 2015-02-27 00:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
I tell you one thing that does suck. In null sec in cases where a cloaky camper would be present I would rat in my tanked Tech1 Hauler with fighters assigned daring the mofo to hotdrop me and had some hilarious results. I started doing that because instead of crying about cloaky campers some of us decide to do something about it. That and things like that will never happen again. This is just another nail...

As I said, so much for creativity, gotta protect those lazy people who don't wanna burn any brain cells in a video game dontcha know.
Aknan
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2015-02-27 01:01:11 UTC
I have some proposal for nerfing assing fighter without kill the mechanics and fighters :
creating a bs ship or bc with the hability to have assissing figthers or a modul hight slot only for carrier and ms making ayble to assist one fighter.

You killed nerfed inoff capitals spending 1 year skilling time for only remote is a little to hard no?

And fighter would be totaly use less if this comme out : a set of sentry makes more domage than a set of fighters.


or other thing you creat an option (in petition) for reinbourse sp spend for a carrier and buy back if players dont wanna play this ship anymore. (and eventualy the time i spend to skill alts for assissting figthers and get a mother ship
Thx in advance for this


you nerfed before the capacity of travel and mouving assets i dident say anything i was interested about thes changes.
BUT ON THIS I DONT agree totaly
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#58 - 2015-02-27 01:08:23 UTC
Aknan wrote:
I have some proposal for nerfing assing fighter without kill the mechanics and fighters :
creating a bs ship or bc with the hability to have assissing figthers or a modul hight slot only for carrier and ms making ayble to assist one fighter.

You killed nerfed inoff capitals spending 1 year skilling time for only remote is a little to hard no?

And fighter would be totaly use less if this comme out : a set of sentry makes more domage than a set of fighters.


or other thing you creat an option (in petition) for reinbourse sp spend for a carrier and buy back if players dont wanna play this ship anymore. (and eventualy the time i spend to skill alts for assissting figthers and get a mother ship
Thx in advance for this


you nerfed before the capacity of travel and mouving assets i dident say anything i was interested about thes changes.
BUT ON THIS I DONT agree totaly



Haha... suck it up. CCP has NEVER given a refund for SP or isk when they nerfed ships, and I doubt they ever will, barring a total removal of the shiptype.
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#59 - 2015-02-27 01:17:58 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm wondering why this is being addressed right now, after all this time. A couple things that come to mind are Sov and Drifters. Possibly related.
.


Possibly. There has also been a spate of people sitting just outside their POS shields and assigning fighters to frigate camps in lowsec = instadeath for anyone jumping in without a cloak. Aggro was assigned to the carrier, so no gateguns for the frigs to worry about.

I fail to see why everyone's so mad. It's a broken mechanic. If you want the effects of your ship to be felt, you should be on grid risking it.

Asking every gang who wants to take frigs into low to bring a) enough people and b) the right ships to deal with bumping a carrier into it's POS is missing the point a little. Crappy gameplay for all involved despite the 'imagination' shown by the risk-averse in their caps.
Aknan
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2015-02-27 01:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aknan
they did reinbourse sp at the time they remouved learnings, now they remouve one of the use of carrier and i spend one year skilling carrier. i can hope to make a petion for having remouving some skill vs some sp to spend in other thing more important than a fast useless ship, and i invite you to hope so and petition if this comes realy to the next patch.

hope make us live Big smile