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battleship pass
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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-02-26 19:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Currently there are a few ships in the battleship lineup that could use some tweaks to help them along and set them apart. A good example of this would be the dominix, which languishes in the shadow of the Ishtar. Others like the Raven and typhoon could use a little tweaking as well.


  • Give the raven a range bonus to heavy missiles; having as much viability with rapid heavies as the Caracal has with rapid lights should be a progression must, especially with the sad state battleships are in with small-scale combat. Reduce sig by 10% as well as giving it 20m/s more base speed.

  • Change the Tempest's bonuses to 10% damage and 7.5% bonus to tracking speed per level. This would cement it nicely as a large-caliber artillery platform that sets it apart from the Tornado. Moving a high to a mid and giving it a 7/6/6 slot layout would be excellent as well, if at all possible.

  • Dropping a mid on the Abaddon for an 8th low along with giving it a solid 25% boost in cap regen and rounding the cap amount out to 9500 (with max skills) sounds excellent; it excels as a line battleship, and augmenting that role would be perfect for it. 30km extra targeting range seems like a nice addition, as well as helping further offset the loss of the 4th mid.

  • The dominix stats stay as is, but the optimal range bonus gets changed to 7.5% drone max velocity per level, as well as tracking speed as per the current setup.. This will help it compete against smaller craft MUCH better.


    • P.S. The domnix tweak seems to be a good way to set it apart from other drone boats. While it is a very strong bonus to field on a t1 ship, I'm certain that with HEAVY nerfs to its fitting and capacitor, as well as its sensors make it viable. It's considered to be one of the oldest battleships in service, so I like the idea of having a very powerful ship for its role that shows its age, but still inspires respect.
    The only ones I feel really strongly about are the Raven and Abaddon; I mostly set the dominix apart as previously stated due to its overlap with the ishtar. I quite like the idea of turning it into a pocket carrier since there are a lot of uses that come along with that. I also think it's abominable that there's a gallente battleship that gets more lows than the amarr, especially with how the amarr line ships function.

    EDIT: I am removing the extra drone per level on the dominix, and replacing it with appropriate bonuses to assist with anti-frig combat; I see now what a godawful idea extra drones were, and I apologize.. Other ships are receiving a few tweaks after reading feedback.
    Danika Princip
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2 - 2015-02-26 19:51:01 UTC
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #3 - 2015-02-26 19:55:05 UTC
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #4 - 2015-02-26 19:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Considering that it comes without the tracking bonus to heavies or sentries and the mobility/vulnerability issues that come with it, I don't see a problem. If it did develop as one, then I'd recommend that the navy gets that bonus, and the current domi reverts to the navy domi's bonuses. The issue I want to fix is with it overlapping on the Ishtar; there are plenty of good counters to large drones.

    What you're highlighting is also a problem with how the drones themselves are balanced, and not necessarily the ships that use them. I'm all for dps on sentries getting nerfed; I just want to make sure that there aren't redundant roles that obsolete certain ships in favor of others.

    So yeah; this would DEFINITELY have to come with a sentry nerf if it was to be implemented.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #5 - 2015-02-26 19:58:31 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.

    Assuming that people use battleships en-masse in giant fleet battles, or that carriers don't already do the same thing?
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #6 - 2015-02-26 20:02:42 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.

    Assuming that people use battleships en-masse in giant fleet battles, or that carriers don't already do the same thing?


    Giving more option to ship up server nodes is not a good plan.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #7 - 2015-02-26 20:05:11 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.

    Assuming that people use battleships en-masse in giant fleet battles, or that carriers don't already do the same thing?


    Giving more option to ship up server nodes is not a good plan.

    You think it would be better suited on the Navy Domi?
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #8 - 2015-02-26 20:05:29 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.

    Assuming that people use battleships en-masse in giant fleet battles, or that carriers don't already do the same thing?


    Carriers do already do that.
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #9 - 2015-02-26 20:07:00 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    Doubling the number of drones in space will definately not slow nodes down to a crawl either.

    Assuming that people use battleships en-masse in giant fleet battles, or that carriers don't already do the same thing?


    Giving more option to ship up server nodes is not a good plan.

    You think it would be better suited on the Navy Domi?


    I think it's a bonus that should just not exist especially when we can just add damage bonus to drones already deployed to get the same result with less server load.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #10 - 2015-02-26 20:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
    Frostys Virpio wrote:


    I think it's a bonus that should just not exist especially when we can just add damage bonus to drones already deployed to get the same result with less server load.

    So go with a super drones approach maybe? I'm open to ideas; I'm not drawing the line on giving the dominix the extra drone bonus; i just want to set it apart from the ishtar.
    Daichi Yamato
    Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
    #11 - 2015-02-26 20:15:09 UTC
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    3 DDA's is kinda trying.

    i'm with catherine on this one. Perhaps not these exact changes, but i feel BS's could do with a pretty much straight buff to dps and tank to make up for the lack of mobility. Power creep and all i know.

    EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

    Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #12 - 2015-02-26 20:18:39 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:


    I think it's a bonus that should just not exist especially when we can just add damage bonus to drones already deployed to get the same result with less server load.

    So go with a super drones approach maybe? I'm open to ideas; I'm not drawing the line on giving the dominix the extra drone bonus; i just want to set it apart from the ishtar.


    I'm kinda curious as to why you want to give the domi or maybe it's navy version dps close to a void shooting vindicator with a set of garde deployed.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #13 - 2015-02-26 20:19:13 UTC
    Daichi Yamato wrote:
    Danika Princip wrote:
    Do you seriously think a domi should be able to top 1500 DPS without even trying?

    With near perfect application?


    3 DDA's is kinda trying.

    i'm with catherine on this one. Perhaps not these exact changes, but i feel BS's could do with a pretty much straight buff to dps and tank to make up for the lack of mobility. Power creep and all i know.

    Exactly. I was reading a nice thread earlier on warp strength multipliers that would help out the vaunted solo/small gang battleship; things like augmenting tracking speed on the Tempest and missile speed for Rapid Heavy launchers on the raven help go towards assisting with that dream.

    Again I'll state: I'm not drawing a hard line on the dominix drone bonus; I would LIKE to hear alternatives that help set it apart from the Ishtar; that's WHY I made an effort to extrapolate on my reason for the changes. Any ideas?
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #14 - 2015-02-26 20:22:04 UTC
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:


    I think it's a bonus that should just not exist especially when we can just add damage bonus to drones already deployed to get the same result with less server load.

    So go with a super drones approach maybe? I'm open to ideas; I'm not drawing the line on giving the dominix the extra drone bonus; i just want to set it apart from the ishtar.


    I'm kinda curious as to why you want to give the domi or maybe it's navy version dps close to a void shooting vindicator with a set of garde deployed.

    I stated that this would HAVE to come with a nerf to sentry drone dps for it to be viable, and that I would be open to alternative ideas as long as it sets itself apart from the Ishtar. I am not drawing a line in the sand and defending an idea to the death. I DO recognize it's not exactly the best idea to defend, but it would help bring it back to popularity over the ishtar. I'd prefer to see them useful in a wider variety of settings.
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #15 - 2015-02-26 20:26:33 UTC
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:
    Catherine Laartii wrote:
    Frostys Virpio wrote:


    I think it's a bonus that should just not exist especially when we can just add damage bonus to drones already deployed to get the same result with less server load.

    So go with a super drones approach maybe? I'm open to ideas; I'm not drawing the line on giving the dominix the extra drone bonus; i just want to set it apart from the ishtar.


    I'm kinda curious as to why you want to give the domi or maybe it's navy version dps close to a void shooting vindicator with a set of garde deployed.

    I stated that this would HAVE to come with a nerf to sentry drone dps for it to be viable, and that I would be open to alternative ideas as long as it sets itself apart from the Ishtar. I am not drawing a line in the sand and defending an idea to the death. I DO recognize it's not exactly the best idea to defend, but it would help bring it back to popularity over the ishtar. I'd prefer to see them useful in a wider variety of settings.


    You could just remove sentries from the ishtar and be done with making them different...
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #16 - 2015-02-26 20:34:21 UTC
    pretty awful suggestions really..

    Domi
    - nerfing the geddon too 100mb would help make the domi be the better droneboat
    - remove drone HP bonus and only have drone damage/tracking bonus for heavies/sentries
    - keep the HP for geddon , maybe bonusing only amarr heavy/sentries

    Abbadon
    - you want a 3 midslot laserboat really? .. i could see a rework of the highs too get the extra lowslot from there
    - 10% damage bonus on 6 turrets could work, leaves a utility high for a Nos, so 7-4-8

    Raven
    - could use more mobility/lower sig

    Rokh
    - could use better cap regen
    - could use more mobility/lower sig

    Tempest
    - add a turret
    - remove damage bonus for a falloff bonus
    - could use more mobility/lower sig

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Leyete Wulf
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #17 - 2015-02-26 20:41:08 UTC
    Tempest: sure why not though I fail to see what's wrong with the current slot layout.

    Abaddon: leave the slots alone but cap bonus yes pls, its pretty ridiculous that I have a battleship that isn't cap stable when the only thing turned on is the guns its built to use.

    Dominix: what are you smoking and is it legal where you live? More drones is the right answer to no question ever.
    Catherine Laartii
    Doomheim
    #18 - 2015-02-26 21:07:16 UTC
    Harvey James wrote:
    pretty awful suggestions really..

    Domi
    - nerfing the geddon too 100mb would help make the domi be the better droneboat
    - remove drone HP bonus and only have drone damage/tracking bonus for heavies/sentries
    - keep the HP for geddon , maybe bonusing only amarr heavy/sentries

    Abbadon
    - you want a 3 midslot laserboat really? .. i could see a rework of the highs too get the extra lowslot from there
    - 10% damage bonus on 6 turrets could work, leaves a utility high for a Nos, so 7-4-8

    Raven
    - could use more mobility/lower sig

    Rokh
    - could use better cap regen
    - could use more mobility/lower sig

    Tempest
    - add a turret
    - remove damage bonus for a falloff bonus
    - could use more mobility/lower sig


    -Changing inherent bonuses on the domi seems like a great route to go, but I don't see a need to nerf the geddon. I will change domi bonuses.

    -Question: what do you use mids on for the abby? If your answer is cap mods or tracking comps, that problem is solved with the current proposition. I suppose it could use a bit longer targeting range would be in order.

    -More mobility on the raven and lower sig? Done.

    -Gotta say I disagree with your assessment on the tempest. The tracking bonus makes it unique, and sets it apart from the Tornado. Making it a strong mid to short range battleship is the ideal outcome, and a tracking bonus will help it miles in regards to small gang combat.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #19 - 2015-02-26 21:10:30 UTC
    abbadon
    - cap booster
    -web/TC
    - cap battery ( great anti neut) aswell as more cap again .. there is a theme here
    -prop mod maybe or a point
    -eccm

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Odethia
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #20 - 2015-02-26 21:12:55 UTC
    Rather than pursuing this ridiculous power creep, lets just nerf the OP T2/T3 and Pirate cruisers and Tactical destroyers.
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