Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A preface, this idea does not stop N+1 mechanics on defense nor does it stop the N+1 response to such a fleet it simple limits the value of large numbers of people sitting on a structure to grind it down and in turn makes value to attack many structures in the same area at once.As well as incentives with a response fleet to protect attempts to grinding fleet ready to respond to any deference fleet.

So now to the suggestion and the math to reinforce it . If we have structures gain resistance based on the number of ships on grid with it at a linear or near linear rate as the number of attackers grows the effective dps of each ship drops till at some point the addition on yet more ships does not make the structure drop any faster and as yet more ships arrive the rate at which the structure goes down will increases.

Now useing this idea as the bases lets look a simple case.

Suppose that the average ship does 1000 dps (chosen for simplicity sake) and that native resistances of the structure are 50% and that the structure gains 5% resistance per ship on grid and the structure has 5000000 hp.

now the table looks like this.
table

Now its clear to see from something like this that as the ships goes up the structure goes down faster and we can easily tweak the point of optimal return. Also it is easy to see that near the optimal point it does not really matter much if you are a little bellow or above the value they are nearly the exact same amount of time to go down. Now simply by tweaking the resistance per ship you set the optimal number of ships and by changing the hp of the structure you change the time to go down.

Now this leads to a new problem what about ships of mixed classes like dreads and BS and this makes a problem as we as players will simply take the ships with the highest dps and burn the structure as fast as we can. This in effect pushes more and more ships used for structure grinding to higher class ships, but there is a solution. Make the resistance gain per ship class rather then per ship. For example if we make the resistance gain for a dread at about 40% rather then the 5% I suggested before two dreads with 10000 dps take 23.1 mins to take down the same structure which when compared to the 5% for a 1000 dps ship which could easly be something as simple as a BS it takes them 23.2 mins with 20 BS. This is basically the same time but with wildly different assets on grid. This again is all adjustable so that the assets on grid to take the structure down quickly is controllable by CCP but is not strongly related to the size of the force on grid.


I think the net effect of a system like this is that structure grinding will be more dangerous less boring and will make be people fight in more locations at once as it will take comparable time to grind sovereignty but less people. Then again I could be wildly wrong so input would be cool.

i am not really suggesting keeping the HP of structures anywhere near the currently are. In fact this lets them be lower tons with out much consequence. By tweaking the numbers you can make structure grinding take a vary defined amount of time. As it currently sits 50,000,000 ehp of a SBU is 15.7 mins of 100 stealth bombers(530 dps) shooting or 13 moros(12900 dps) in siege mode for 5 mins. if you want it to take 5 mins to kill and SBU with 13 moros with this system it is simply setting the native resistance to 60% and 7% resistance per dread and a base hp of 7.9 mill and it will take 5 mins to destroy the SBU and as any interesting side effect 7 moros will destory it in about 6 mins so for a 20% gain in speed it will take twice as many people. Now looking back to the 15.7 mins of the 100 bombers with the same hp and base resistance and .92% resistance gain per frigate it will now take 15.8 mins to take down the structure with 100 bombers and 19.8 mins with 50 that is 25% improvement for twice the people. And again this is just an example in no way would i clam that this is the correct amount of time to set it to or the correct amount of people that should be fielded this is just a look at numbers as reference. With the current system twice the people is net twice as fast.

And i fully understand that structure grinding suck and you are highly encourage to bring as many people as you can to take it down as fast as you can but at the most basic they are a timer on how long a group has to respond to a threat, that is there point and as they currently sit they highly preference larger groups over smaller ones, PVP in Fleet combat already does that.



I had not thought of that but there are simple solutions to that problem rather then making it about people on grid make it about in 250km, the max lock range. if you have 100 people to fly interceptor to slow the structure going down you likely have enough people to fight back so why are you not already doing that.



Its fine, i understand i no next to nothing about structure grinding but that is partly why I posted this, my idea is flawed but learning is learning. If i can see a simple solution to at least part of the problem why is this not how it is fix? well clearly i have more to learn on the topic. sov mechanics are going to get reworked that is clear but the fact is we will likely still be stuck with Structure grinding at some level as they are basically a response timer and life with out that timer would likely be worse.

Increasing the resist profile massively buffs any reps that said structure could be recieving as well.

Either way you look at it, the principle is doomed to failure.

You misunderstand... the timers will still be there.

And repping something you wish to defend is always an option.


In any case... the counter proposal was nothing more than hyperbole meant to illustrate the polar oppose of your proposal... which is equally bad.

yeah i kind of started to see that as i was writing a response (the hyperbole i mean, totally missed the timer part) the problem i see is i still dont really see the mathematical flaw. So please provide a situation in which the system i have breaks down, and or my understanding of the system break down. I will not clam that you are wrong, this game is working on by people much smarter then me but i have yet to see the flaw so please help educate me.

The only result of that is big entities sending tengu blobs and rolling every single station the small guys have in short order. PL will be the first to do this because... you know, Brave rookies aren't allowed to have station services.

Haha, "Mercenary" corps of logi:

they show up in fleets with in logi ships, buffer tanked t1 hulls with some kind of token weapon. by firing on the pos, agressing it, and repping at the same time they drive up resistances while still having the whole rest of the watchlist and their max locked targets to spread over fellow logi.

corp would be neutral, defeating the "friendlies/blues on grid don't count" kind of idea."

fun with pipebombing

all joking aside, unsupported, -1

I bet I've shot more structures than most of you.

My brain is so numb I couldn't give a rat's bottom if it's ten or fifty million ehp. Just keep grinding.

If the rules change, I'd go... oh. And then go back to grinding the structures. It doesn't matter how hard or easy they make it. Someone's gotta do it.

Ouch, they already have one of the toughest, most active, low survival, and statistically thankless jobs.
Everyone loves logi, but hate the k/d ratio. I jokingly counter that brick tanks and lock times be nerfed across the board, so everyone takes a hit to the chin. More death all around.