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Standing Loss - Player Pod Killing
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#41 - 2015-02-25 10:19:42 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Its funny that people are using attempts at logical arguments to suggest that actually murdering a virtual citizen should be virtually legal in the eyes of the virtual police.

The police has no involvement here at all. CONCORD penalties aren't part of the consideration.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#42 - 2015-02-25 10:20:47 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Its funny that people are using attempts at logical arguments to suggest that actually murdering a virtual citizen should be virtually legal in the eyes of the virtual police.

The police has no involvement here at all. CONCORD penalties aren't part of the consideration.


CONCORD aren't the police.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#43 - 2015-02-25 10:26:04 UTC
Okay, even if you go for that angle, the faction police isn't a consideration either. The standings being affected have no bearing on either CONCORD or the faction police.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#44 - 2015-02-25 10:27:42 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, even if you go for that angle, the faction police isn't a consideration either. The standings being affected have no bearing on either CONCORD or the faction police.


Of course they dont. Whatever you say.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#45 - 2015-02-25 10:36:56 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Shouldn't PVP be encouraged? This discourages PVP and thus is bad mechanic. Anyone defending this mechanic, and at the same time rambling about HS themepark, moar pvp, etc, is a hypocrite.

You totally overstate the matter. NPC corp standing losses are not a valid excuse for holding fire.
Maybe not for you, but for some they might be, as has been previously mentioned in this thread.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#46 - 2015-02-25 10:41:21 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, even if you go for that angle, the faction police isn't a consideration either. The standings being affected have no bearing on either CONCORD or the faction police.


Of course they dont. Whatever you say.

Keep on trollin' bro.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#47 - 2015-02-25 10:43:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Okay, even if you go for that angle, the faction police isn't a consideration either. The standings being affected have no bearing on either CONCORD or the faction police.


Of course they dont. Whatever you say.

Keep on trollin' bro.


Your inability to understand basic mechanisms of the game are indicative of either willful ignorance or (as evidenced by your retort) attempts to derail this thread.

TL;DR: No, you.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#48 - 2015-02-25 10:45:16 UTC
I have a character (more than one, actually) with absolutely shot FW standings, and I have no problems with police in any area of space.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#49 - 2015-02-25 10:49:01 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I have a character (more than one, actually) with absolutely shot FW standings, and I have no problems with police in any area of space.


I fail to see the relevance of this.

Especially when you think that CONCORD are the police.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#50 - 2015-02-25 10:51:44 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Its funny that people are using attempts at logical arguments to suggest that actually murdering a virtual citizen should be virtually legal in the eyes of the virtual police.

And what's the relevance of that? When has anyone made that connection, aside from yourself?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#51 - 2015-02-25 10:53:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

And what's the relevance of that? When has anyone made that connection, aside from yourself?


So.... mechanical facts of the game are assumptive connections are they?

Ok, well I don't know how it works in your head, but Im referring to how it actually works.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#52 - 2015-02-25 10:56:46 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

And what's the relevance of that? When has anyone made that connection, aside from yourself?


So.... mechanical facts of the game are assumptive connections are they?

Ok, well I don't know how it works in your head, but Im referring to how it actually works.

How does what work? Be specific this time, and give examples. Explain the cause and effect relationship between the action being discussed, and what happens to the perpetrator afterward. Don't be intentionally vague and obtuse in order to try to get away with some unfounded accusation against others.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#53 - 2015-02-25 11:00:08 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Don't be intentionally vague and obtuse in order to try to get away with some unfounded accusation against others.


What accusation?

I stated my point of view.

You don't like it, that's your right.

I don't have to justify myself to you just because you feel like an argument.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#54 - 2015-02-25 11:06:30 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Don't be intentionally vague and obtuse in order to try to get away with some unfounded accusation against others.


What accusation?

I stated my point of view.

You don't like it, that's your right.

I don't have to justify myself to you just because you feel like an argument.

"Its funny that people are using attempts at logical arguments to suggest that actually murdering a virtual citizen should be virtually legal in the eyes of the virtual police."

"People are" isn't a point of view; it's an expression of fact. Much like saying "that is a big cat" is an expression of fact, even if false, as opposed to "I think that is a big cat," which would be your point of view.

So now that we've established that you were trying to troll-bait with ambiguity-veiled accusations, would you like to add anything else to the discussion?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#55 - 2015-02-25 11:15:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


"People are" isn't a point of view; it's an expression of fact. Much like saying "that is a big cat" is an expression of fact, even if false, as opposed to "I think that is a big cat," which would be your point of view.


Its my point of view that people are. Sorry my sentence was not semantically accurate enough for you to allow it in the discussion. Ill make sure I apply in writing to your department next time before I make a post.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So now that we've established that you were trying to troll-bait with ambiguity-veiled accusations, would you like to add anything else to the discussion?

Again, "No, you are". Just because you dont like my opinion doesn't make it trolling. You are the one who is trying to illicit an emotional reaction here, it would seem.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-02-25 11:23:02 UTC
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Shouldn't PVP be encouraged? This discourages PVP and thus is bad mechanic. Anyone defending this mechanic, and at the same time rambling about HS themepark, moar pvp, etc, is a hypocrite.

You totally overstate the matter. NPC corp standing losses are not a valid excuse for holding fire.
Maybe not for you, but for some they might be, as has been previously mentioned in this thread.

First, killing a helpless pod is not kind of PVP i would 'encourage' and care of anyway. Even more after removing of clone grades and learning implants (and i'm pretty sure they will be removed the same way 'we will add something nice LATER')
Second, people always find the things which 'discourages' them to do something. For you it might be standings, for other it were clone grades, for others it is learning implants, and there are people who WILL PVP LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW when ships are given for free

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#57 - 2015-02-25 11:26:25 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


"People are" isn't a point of view; it's an expression of fact. Much like saying "that is a big cat" is an expression of fact, even if false, as opposed to "I think that is a big cat," which would be your point of view.


Its my point of view that people are. Sorry my sentence was not semantically accurate enough for you to allow it in the discussion. Ill make sure I apply in writing to your department next time before I make a post.

Apology accepted.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#58 - 2015-02-25 11:32:50 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
First, killing a helpless pod is not kind of PVP i would 'encourage' and care of anyway. Even more after removing of clone grades and learning implants (and i'm pretty sure they will be removed the same way 'we will add something nice LATER')
Second, people always find the things which 'discourages' them to do something. For you it might be standings, for other it were clone grades, for others it is learning implants, and there are people who WILL PVP LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW when ships are given for free

It's really not "helpless," though. First, consider the possibility that the player in the pod reships and joins the fight, not only within the system, but even worse, from an Orca or the Blowhard or whatever. You're penalized for countering that. Second, the standings hit applies regardless of context. You can be getting ganked, and if you shoot the criminal's pod, you still get hit with a standing penalty. One of my characters got absolutely wrecked with FW standings penalties after podding an outlaw.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#59 - 2015-02-25 19:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sean Parisi
March rabbit wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Shouldn't PVP be encouraged? This discourages PVP and thus is bad mechanic. Anyone defending this mechanic, and at the same time rambling about HS themepark, moar pvp, etc, is a hypocrite.

You totally overstate the matter. NPC corp standing losses are not a valid excuse for holding fire.
Maybe not for you, but for some they might be, as has been previously mentioned in this thread.

First, killing a helpless pod is not kind of PVP i would 'encourage' and care of anyway. Even more after removing of clone grades and learning implants (and i'm pretty sure they will be removed the same way 'we will add something nice LATER')
Second, people always find the things which 'discourages' them to do something. For you it might be standings, for other it were clone grades, for others it is learning implants, and there are people who WILL PVP LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW when ships are given for free


The argument isn't necessarily the fact that you even lost standings - but that people within NPC corps are the only people who follow this mechanic. If a player has an issue with you Podding them while in an NPC corporation they can mark your standing themselves - there is no need to have a PVE element intertwined with only one sort of player but not the other. I have 10 standing with the Caldari State, so when you pod me should you not lose standing then?

Even when I was in Faction Warfare, if I am in a Player Corp and someone kills me, then should they not be given the same penalty as if I was in State Protectorate? Why is it only a certain group benefits from this? Also PODS are not from a game play perspective "Defenseless" - I can follow you around with a POD to get Intel or reship instantly. Maybe from a lore perspective.

Basically - It is a system that should be dealt with now before it becomes an issue - should more NPC corps be added, or how it effects newer players who are unaware of said mechanic. It is a Game Play over "Realism" choice. Otherwise I would see the system fleshed out more so it isn't isolated to just people in NPC corps.

Ma'Baker McCandless

You do know just saying "Just because you don't understand" condescendingly without actually explaining your point has no bearing right? The implication is that you know something we don't - when people have attempted to refute what you say. So instead of acting condescending and superior you can 'enlighten' us to what you know which we do not.
Anako Assene
Seekers of The Holy Grail
#60 - 2015-04-14 11:54:59 UTC
Well, initially I was supporting idea of ditching the whole standings thing because I was impacted as well. However, it makes perfect sense: if you pod player from a player corp, you are going to get -10 instantly. And no way to recover: from now on you're "red" and end of story. Why NPC corps should be different?

Now if you're moaning about limiting PVP: PVP already has been done. Ship destroyed. You won. Leave that pod or face penalty.