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Bishops condemn marrying heretics to convert them

Author
Albizu Zateki
Doomheim
#181 - 2015-02-24 01:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Albizu Zateki
Why is that?

"Bloody Omir's coming back. Monsters from the endless black. Wading through a crimson flood, Omir's come to drink your blood."

Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-02-24 01:23:32 UTC
Quote:
I like that you preach tolerance and respect and understanding.


To everything but the Sani Sabik.


I have.. Have lost friends to the Sani Sabik.. And they did not get the chance to die honourably.. Or free as a man should.. And i try to seek the goodness in all things Mr. Zateki, but where the Sani Sabik are concerned i have only vengeance in my heart.. For that i am not proud.. But they have subverted our glorious faith.. And have taken those deer to me.. That is all i can say on the matter, i hope you understand Mr. Zateki, please do not think me a blood thirsting zealot, i am a man of peace and of the faith, for this is all i have left in this life.

However.. I do believe in showing respect to all, even my enemies, and yes, even the Sani Sabik.. While i may not agree with them, there views, or there believes, i show the same respect i expect to be shown, even those who seek to tear down my faith, as respect is all we have, honour and respect.. These are my two tenants.. However my views are entirely my own, and i understand some may see them as different, or wrong in some cases, we are all shaped by our experiences, we are all made by them, and reborn in them..

Forgive me for the long speech like talk i just gave Mr. Zateki, and please know none of that was hostile onto you, or was meant as a disrespect.

"Through the darkest valley we must walk to know the the light"

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#183 - 2015-02-24 03:18:14 UTC
Apologies Mr. Sariah,


Mr. Zateki should be involving himself in his work, not on a public debate.

Unless God is hiring researchers?


Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#184 - 2015-02-24 04:03:32 UTC
Quote:
Apologies Mr. Sariah,


Mr. Zateki should be involving himself in his work, not on a public debate.

Unless God is hiring researchers?


Thank you for letting me know Mr. Riis,

I did not mean to draw him away from his commitments,

God will provide all that is needed, so long as we have the wit to seek it out Mr. Riis, have a good day, fly safe.

Regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Adolphus Clarr
Amarrian Mission of the Sacred Word
#185 - 2015-02-24 22:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Adolphus Clarr
*Nervously steps towards the camera*

"if I might interject for a moment? My apologies for saying so, but there seems to be some confusion as to what a Heretic is, and why 'conversion' through Marriage is a contradiction in terms. It is like a square circle, a dry moisture, or a frigid heat. It is a logical impossibility.

Heretics do not need conversion. They are already intimately familiar with our scriptures, rituals, festivals and taboos. In fact, they are so familiar with the scriptures that they seek to twist the words and meanings around on themselves, to dissuade and confuse those of the true faith.

In capsuleer terms, a Heretic would be an enemy saboteur who knew your ship type, has the ability to fly it, knows how to disable it, and through careful study of blueprints and ship design, could target and disable specific systems to cause maximum damage. The Heretic knows the security codes and channels to fool your fleetmates into jumping into a hot zone, or getting the enemy to warp in on them.

So, in continuance of this analogy, let us consider a ship to represent our own life. Let the fleet represent our religion. 'Marriage' is the screening procedure of deciding who you want as a crew mate, or in your fleet or corporation.

'Heathens', or non-believers, are potential crew that have not yet been interviewed, nor have they yet passed the security check. We do not know if they are good or bad, we simply know that they come to us looking for guidance and friendship. Should they wish to join the crew of another ship, that is fine. If they choose to fly in the fleets of the enemy, that is still their choice.

'Apostates', or those that left the faith, are essentially deserters. They have cheated on their contract and left the crew before their term has finished. Certainly there is shame and dishonor in such an action, however we do not generally consider these people as a threat to our holy faith.

'Heretics' on the other hand, are 'known AWOXers' of the faith. They make the pretense of being one of the faithful, but adhere to doctrine and codes of conduct that are theirs alone.

If you let a Heretic into your metaphorical ship's crew, fleet or corporation, you are essentially knowingly introducing a poison pill. Heretics know the faith well enough to cleverly distort and manipulate the scriptures from their true meaning. They will turn your corp mates against you, use secure codes and channels to communicate positions with the enemy, loot your storage lockers and your corporate wallet, and then, with enough shares in your corporation, kick you out as CEO and take over your corporation. Now, you watch in horror as your own corporation declares war on your own friends and fleetmates as you are powerless to stop them.

Those non-believer 'heathens' in the Tribal Republic Fleet that worship the spirits of their ancestors and so forth are far less contemptible than known heretics. We do not consider them as good or evil, we consider them as lost souls, and in need of guidance. In many cases, those of the Matari fleet fight with great honor and skill. You might compare them to disobedient children in need of correction.

Heretics on the other hand, are more like an abusive spouse. They have access to all of your bank accounts and property, know who all of your family and friends are, know where you work, live in the same house as you, how you cook your meals and so on. They will insert themselves between you and the outside world to try and control your communications between friends and family.

So why would a Bishop allow one of the faithful to marry a known Heretic? Would you allow a friend to marry a known spousal abuser? Would you allow a known saboteur to become a part of your ship's crew? Would you allow your recruitment officer to admit a known AWOXer into your corporation, or a known spy into your fleet?

As we say in our scriptures. "To know the path but not to follow it, that is the greatest sin."

P.S. Please pardon the mixed metaphors. There are those within my congregation that are baseliners as well as capsuleers.

As the cross-eyed flounder once said to Saint Junip "This is the longest damn tunnel I have ever been in!"

Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#186 - 2015-02-24 22:41:02 UTC
Adolphus Clarr wrote:
*Nervously steps towards the camera*

"if I might interject for a moment? My apologies for saying so, but there seems to be some confusion as to what a Heretic is, and why 'conversion' through Marriage is a contradiction in terms. It is like a square circle, a dry moisture, or a frigid heat. It is a logical impossibility.

Heretics do not need conversion. They are already intimately familiar with our scriptures, rituals, festivals and taboos. In fact, they are so familiar with the scriptures that they seek to twist the words and meanings around on themselves, to dissuade and confuse those of the true faith.

In capsuleer terms, a Heretic would be an enemy saboteur who knew your ship type, has the ability to fly it, knows how to disable it, and through careful study of blueprints and ship design, could target and disable specific systems to cause maximum damage. The Heretic knows the security codes and channels to fool your fleetmates into jumping into a hot zone, or getting the enemy to warp in on them.

So, in continuance of this analogy, let us consider a ship to represent our own life. Let the fleet represent our religion. 'Marriage' is the screening procedure of deciding who you want as a crew mate, or in your fleet or corporation.

'Heathens', or non-believers, are potential crew that have not yet been interviewed, nor have they yet passed the security check. We do not know if they are good or bad, we simply know that they come to us looking for guidance and friendship. Should they wish to join the crew of another ship, that is fine. If they choose to fly in the fleets of the enemy, that is still their choice.

'Apostates', or those that left the faith, are essentially deserters. They have cheated on their contract and left the crew before their term has finished. Certainly there is shame and dishonor in such an action, however we do not generally consider these people as a threat to our holy faith.

'Heretics' on the other hand, are 'known AWOXers' of the faith. They make the pretense of being one of the faithful, but adhere to doctrine and codes of conduct that are theirs alone.

If you let a Heretic into your metaphorical ship's crew, fleet or corporation, you are essentially knowingly introducing a poison pill. Heretics know the faith well enough to cleverly distort and manipulate the scriptures from their true meaning. They will turn your corp mates against you, use secure codes and channels to communicate positions with the enemy, loot your storage lockers and your corporate wallet, and then, with enough shares in your corporation, kick you out as CEO and take over your corporation. Now, you watch in horror as your own corporation declares war on your own friends and fleetmates as you are powerless to stop them.

Those non-believer 'heathens' in the Tribal Republic Fleet that worship the spirits of their ancestors and so forth are far less contemptible than known heretics. We do not consider them as good or evil, we consider them as lost souls, and in need of guidance. In many cases, those of the Matari fleet fight with great honor and skill. You might compare them to disobedient children in need of correction.

Heretics on the other hand, are more like an abusive spouse. They have access to all of your bank accounts and property, know who all of your family and friends are, know where you work, live in the same house as you, how you cook your meals and so on. They will insert themselves between you and the outside world to try and control your communications between friends and family.

So why would a Bishop allow one of the faithful to marry a known Heretic? Would you allow a friend to marry a known spousal abuser? Would you allow a known saboteur to become a part of your ship's crew? Would you allow your recruitment officer to admit a known AWOXer into your corporation, or a known spy into your fleet?

As we say in our scriptures. "To know the path but not to follow it, that is the greatest sin."

P.S. Please pardon the mixed metaphors. There are those within my congregation that are baseliners as well as capsuleers.


Could not have said it better myself brother, and thank you for the in depth answer, I am sure it will help eliminate any further questions about what a Heretic is, and why were are the Bishops are against them, and indeed all beleivers of His holy light.

Also i apologize for not being able to formulate a more worthy response, i am not as gifted as you obviously are with words, i am simply a student of the Imperial Academy with the hope of becoming a warrior of our people, and to serve God in anyway i can, for it is by His light we strive and live.

"May you walk the blessed path of righteousness"

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Adolphus Clarr
Amarrian Mission of the Sacred Word
#187 - 2015-02-24 23:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Adolphus Clarr
Eli Sariah wrote:


Could not have said it better myself brother, and thank you for the in depth answer, I am sure it will help eliminate any further questions about what a Heretic is, and why were are the Bishops are against them, and indeed all beleivers of His holy light.

Also i apologize for not being able to formulate a more worthy response, i am not as gifted as you obviously are with words, i am simply a student of the Imperial Academy with the hope of becoming a warrior of our people, and to serve God in anyway i can, for it is by His light we strive and live.

"May you walk the blessed path of righteousness"

Humble regards, Eli Sariah


My thanks to you, Cadet Sariah. I often feel that words fail me at times. I am after all, a simple Ni-Kunni, once of the Merchants. During a time of great need, our family were called to help the Empire to deliver medicines, food and supplies to the more remote and inaccessible regions on my planet. Our animal drawn carts may have seemed crude, but they proved helpful in reaching areas where the Imperial Hover trucks could not reach.

In fact, as our own unique way of delivering the truth of the scripture to the mostly illiterate farmers of those communities, our family would often have, well, puppet shows, morality plays, from the back of our supplies wagon. It sounds very silly I know, to have puppet shows based on the lives of the Saints. However, it did bring great comfort and delight to those at a time when they most needed it.

There were some, particularly the Amarrian faithful, who regarded our puppet shows with a measure of disdain. We were, after all, simple uneducated Ni-Kunni merchants only recently freed from slavery. Yet, we were now playing out the lives of the Saints using hand puppets we crafted ourselves from whatever we could find. Sack cloth, Bardo beans, twigs and fur and so on. I can certainly see how some of the faithful might interpret that as mockery instead of devotion.

This is why I often started our puppet shows with the story of the statue of Saint Junip and the Juggler.

Quote:
]Inside of a sacred temple, in a nave devoted to Saint Junip, many of the faithful came to ask for his blessings and also to be healed of their infirmities. Such favors require a payment in the form of a donation to the church of course. It was during the time of the sacred festivals, so of course the line of petitioners was quite long. One little boy, a Ni-Kunni, waited patiently to ask that the Saint give blessings to his sick mother. He was a simple street performer, so as such he did not have the money that his Mother needed for the medicine she required.

When it came for the Ni-Kunni boy's turn to petition the Saint for a favor, he realized that he did not have any coins to offer to the statue. So instead, he sought to make restitution in trade. He did the only thing he knew how to do. He started juggling! Yes! Right there in the church before the statue of St. Junip himself!

As you might imagine, the Priest was outraged! He grabbed the boy by the arm and soundly rebuked him. "Where do you think you are, the marketplace? I will have you know that the church of Amarr is no place for acrobatics and circus antics!"

Just then, the Statue of Saint Junip came to life. He held his rather large belly and began laughing hysterically. Then, Saint Junip spoke. "Hold, please hold good father and do not rebuke this poor boy so! For many centuries have I stood here, patiently listening to the petitions of the parishioners who attend me with their problems. This is the first time that one of the faithful has approached me with my concerns at heart. Never before have any sought to bring me mirth, merriment and entertainments! Believe me father, no one likes a good joke better than God himself!"

Then Saint Junip turned to the young juggler and said "Never have I laughed so hard in five hundred years as I have now! Go home and kiss your mother for me, and you shall find her healed!"

Then with that, the statue became solid once again. Before the eyes of everyone it was transformed. No longer was the statue of Saint Junip that of a robust monk in silent and solemn contemplation. Instead, it became the statue of a fat. laughing monk. This was God's way of reminding us that there is laughter as well as solemnity to be found in the scriptures.


Statue of Saint Junip

That was always my son's favorite story as a child, as it was my favorite story as a child. You see, even those counted as the least among us, whether we are slaves, peasants, merchants or jugglers, have our contributions noted and appreciated by God and all the Saints.

Why, sometimes in my darkest hours when I question God's divine plan for me, I simply remind myself that God has a sense of humor, and likes to play jokes on me sometimes.

*Sob*

My son!

*His hand reaches to the flask around his neck that contains a human tongue. He turns away from the camera for a moment, then gasps and sobs.*

As the cross-eyed flounder once said to Saint Junip "This is the longest damn tunnel I have ever been in!"

Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#188 - 2015-02-25 01:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Sariah
Quote:
My thanks to you, Cadet Sariah. I often feel that words fail me at times. I am after all, a simple Ni-Kunni, once of the Merchants. During a time of great need, our family were called to help the Empire to deliver medicines, food and supplies to the more remote and inaccessible regions on my planet. Our animal drawn carts may have seemed crude, but they proved helpful in reaching areas where the Imperial Hover trucks could not reach.

In fact, as our own unique way of delivering the truth of the scripture to the mostly illiterate farmers of those communities, our family would often have, well, puppet shows, morality plays, from the back of our supplies wagon. It sounds very silly I know, to have puppet shows based on the lives of the Saints. However, it did bring great comfort and delight to those at a time when they most needed it.

There were some, particularly the Amarrian faithful, who regarded our puppet shows with a measure of disdain. We were, after all, simple uneducated Ni-Kunni merchants only recently freed from slavery. Yet, we were now playing out the lives of the Saints using hand puppets we crafted ourselves from whatever we could find. Sack cloth, Bardo beans, twigs and fur and so on. I can certainly see how some of the faithful might interpret that as mockery instead of devotion.

This is why I often started our puppet shows with the story of the statue of Saint Junip and the Juggler.


Well i can assure you in this circumstance they clearly did not fail you brother, quite the opposite, and honestly.. There is a certain.. Satisfaction to a hard days work, I am sure you would know what i mean, especially considering you are doing God's humble work in order to help feed, keep clothed and illness free our glorious and proud people of the faith.

And i for one, agree with your way of teaching the youth an, to a lessor extent, the older citizens, the holy scriptures of His all powerful light, on this however, i would like to send you some ISK so long as you use it for equipment, books, and icons of the faith, you should see it clear to your account within 5 hours, i am somewhat remote at this time. I know how much ISK is worth to planet siders, use it well, please keep in mind that i am only a cadet, and hence my coffers are not heavy, but everything i do is for the good of the Amarr people and for the cluster at large, please use it to help your community in anyway you can with it.

Unfortunately those, traditionalists do not understand how much one can learn from your way, different upbringings, different pasts, we are all different and so is our intake of knowledge, and by extension, the one true faith, i for one, admire how you teach your people, it has fascinated me for quite a while, as I'm sure you can understand as i grew up on Amarr Prime, so it is a completely foreign aspect to me, but i can see it for its truth, and it is a great way of teaching the faith to, what i consider, one of the bedrocks of our mighty people, so i congratulate you, continue to speak with pride on this matter, it does you well.

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Adolphus Clarr
Amarrian Mission of the Sacred Word
#189 - 2015-02-25 06:43:41 UTC
*Wipes away his tears as he looks towards the screen. He seems to be crying tears of joy.*

My thanks to you Sir, for your kind words and your donation of ISK to help those most in need.

As the cross-eyed flounder once said to Saint Junip "This is the longest damn tunnel I have ever been in!"

Eli Sariah
Doomheim
#190 - 2015-02-25 11:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Sariah
Quote:
*Wipes away his tears as he looks towards the screen. He seems to be crying tears of joy.*

My thanks to you Sir, for your kind words and your donation of ISK to help those most in need.


I am no Sir my friend, i am a humble servant of His divine will, i be transferring you 5,000,000 ISK and a amount of supplies for your people, remember Adolphus Clarr, we are all here because He wills it, but it is up to us to stay here, continue to do His work brother, please let me know if i can ever help in anyway possible, good luck, and do His almighty work.

"Thou shall not fear the darkness, for we are the light"

Humble regards, Eli Sariah

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

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