Assembly Hall

It seems very clear from all recent game development tendencies that non PVPs are only in the game as the bottom link in the food chain for all other players, they should expect to be trolled and any comment suggesting otherwise. In short if you play EVE now and are not interested in PvP stopped deluding yourself and find a game you get a better experience in, EVE will just be misery...

Highsec wardecs are broken in my opinion. Too much power lies in the hands of the aggressor and any newer industrial corp is going to struggle to do anything in the event of a war. I say this as someone who started out their EVE career in a highsec, pure PvE corp that had absolutely no PvP players inside of it.

When the first wardec came, we were still incredibly unprepared. It came from a merc corp who would basically come to our system, cloak up in a deep safe, and sit around all day afk waiting for both our members to reach low levels of activity, and the pirate corporation we were working with to log off. They would then hit us over and over again until everyone was in stations, spinning ships, since a lot of them couldn't even begin to fit a starter combat frigate. We had members that were often less than a couple of months old. Everyone else were carebears for life.

Even as we got better with dealing with wartime, it was a bit too little too late. More and more corporations were dogpiling onto the wardec. At one point there wasn't an hour in the day which you could be logged on and not have wartargets cloaked throughout the system. This is the point we were actually able to get some of our pirate friends to start helping us with the wardecs. They were limited though, as they weren't massive lumbering corporations, so they could only help us with a few of our most difficult wardecs. Even then, we weren't able to make a dent, even though there was an effort from many people to try and get some kills against these dec corps. Major problems were things such as lots of neutral logi in system to break any wt's out of any jams, as well as the majority of fights either being quick, fast engagements against a lone ship that couldn't be saved, or they were fought on station where the wt's knew enough about the aggro system and knew how to use neutral logi alts well enough that they were guaranteed not to lose anything. I believe at one point we had a proteus, falcon, drake and a brutix all piling onto a wt we had baited into engaging on station, only for him to land two neutral logis on top of station and rep the ship long enough so that it could dock.

We were only able to resolve the wardecs after I was able to befriend even more PvP corps in the area. There were about 4-5 PvP corps, one of which was comprised of about 100 people and the other which came from nullsec, that we were able to uproot all of these wardecs and get them off our back. We had been in a constant war for nearly three months and even with the help of somewhat competent PvPers, the wars ended with us just barely able to deal out about a billion isk in kills to the few billion we had suffered. It ultimately led to the corporation falling apart.

I've kind of rambled a bit, but I wanted there to be a personal touch to help understand where I'm coming from when I put down my next points:

NPC Corporations are not a real option. Whoever is pushing this meme has no idea what a corporation can mean to players, and are generally people who think that corporations should fit some ideal they've made up in their head. Corporations act as a rallying point for players to come together and work towards a single, more clearly focused goal. It is not a place just for PvPers to stack their "leet" KB's under a single banner. They are for everyone, not just the people that have been artificially decided that "these are the kind of people who can have corporations without being rekt."

If a merc corp can bribe concord to start a war, why can an industrial corporation not bribe concord to invalidate it? This at least gives an indy corp to use its natural abilities to counteract war decs. If you pay 50mil isk to start a war, why can't an indy corp pay 100mil to invalidate it? If you really think the war dec is worth it, you can double down and pay 200mil to keep it going. Let it keep going, it would create at least some risk for a wardec corporation. Because as of right now, unless they're just bad at life, most wardec corps worth a dime aren't going to start a fight with someoone they don't think they can absolutely pulverize with absolutely no risk. The corps that are most vulnerable are the corps which are new and don't have the means to fight for themselves.

To conclude, the corp is still dead and save for a few people I don't even see any old corp members log on anymore. At our peak, before the wardec, there were about 60 of us. We were starting to participate in NPSI fleets, starting to buddy up with local industrial and PvP corps, and were generally just being a group of noobs making something out of what we had. Over the course of three months and dozens of war decs, this was very slowly eroded away until there wasn't anything left. To this day I still hop from corp to corp looking for a corp that is reminiscent of the corp that I had been apart of before non-stop wars tore it apart.

tl;dr highsec wardec bs isn't beneficial for anyone except the aggressors and suppresses the growth of new corps that don't want to lump in with major blocs that are already in power.

They don't have the option to dodge a wardec, you can only drop corporation. This works if you have a well established corporation, not a new corporation full of people who still don't understand basic EVE mechanics.



Doing what? Such as recruiting 4 PvP alliances to join in the wardec like I said I did? There's only so much you can do against people who will sit afk cloaky in your systems all day. Some members even tried moving across the galaxy. They were followed over 30 jumps to be killed by war deccers as soon as they had a chance to use a locator agent to find them.



What rewards?



I don't PvE, that's how I started out. But you're free to pull that card if you'd like. I have been in many PvP corporations following that corporation which has been wardecc'd who has said the same thing as any industrial corp. "Avoid major traffic systems, don't get caught out alone, etc etc".



No, I want to meet in the middle. You want it to either be black or white. It's not functional when you only look at it in black and white. There are legitimate reasons to use wardecs. "Your corp is new and easy targets" isn't a legitimate reason for corps to be able to keep 50+ active wardecs open at all times. This could be as simple as limiting the amount of simultaneous wardecs at a time. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to wardec 50 corps at the same time.

Which is a terrible solution to an obvious problem of war dec's being easily abused.



No, that was an offhand suggestion I made. You're just going after it like I'm about to put it into the next releases patch notes or something. The entire point of the thread from what I saw was to possibly brainstorm solutions.



Until it becomes



Because there isn't a good reason. The only reason is to grief and troll and to circlejerk to tired old "HTFU" meme and talk about tears.

It doesn't do anything to benefit the sandbox. It actually works against a sandbox, since it turns a valley of options into a peak of one action. Which is troll corps wardeccing anything with a pulse who won't fight against them.

It's actually a textbook exploit, and one that used to be punishable but sadly is no longer.

And being able to use a mechanic is not "abuse". It's there to be used how anyone sees fit.





Just because you don't think something is a good reason, does not make it invalid. Because they felt like it is always, always, 100% of the time a good enough reason in a sandbox game. It does not matter if you disagree, you don't get to curtail their freedom as players.

If you can't deal with that, you are playing the wrong game. This game has player freedom, I suggest you pick one that doesn't.

This I can agree with, dropping a corp to avoid a wardec shouldn't be allowed, but neither should a situation in which it's been made to be a legitimate strategy by troll wardecs. I'm not against wardecs, I'm against how easily they are abused. People will just make blanket wardecs, hitting a bunch of random corps, in hopes that more targets will turn up. This is abusive of a mechanic, which creates the problem you mentioned. This ruins the possibility of wardeccing any corp in a way to disrupt their actions, because they can just leave and join another corporation. Which is more than likely why there is a larger amount of war deccers who just do it for easy kills.



The player has as much freedom to express their opinions about the direction of the game as they do to play the game. That's player freedom. I do think it's illegitimate, and I think the very fact that I would, as well as many others, only post about it on an alt, says a lot about the current state of affairs in EVE.

Since it's a sandbox, I'm going to continue to use the forums and any other medium I can find in order to bring attention to the blatant abuse of wardec mechanics in a way to circumvent highsec engagement rules, because I'm free to do that. Stop curtailing my freedoms, bro.

That is literally what they are for.

Concord stifles gameplay, wardecs exist solely to allow people around that loathsome mechanic.

You can take your "resolve disputes" and your e-honor, and go play a different game. Clearly you don't want to play EVE.

A corp full of noobs should probably disband, TBH, because it's almost certainly never going to get anywhere.

Too bad. That's a big part of what wardecs are for, to serve as a mechanism for generating loss and thereby stimulating the economy.





No, it's like paying a galactic level authority and it applying across the galaxy. Who'd have thunk it?




The only way wardecs are broken, or open to abuse is that they can be dodged for free without having to surrender.




Only if you don't shoot back.

It is not the fault of the mechanic that you're too chicken to shoot back. That's your own fault.