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Crime & Punishment

 
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End of the Awoxer? Is eve getting too soft?
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#501 - 2015-02-22 01:09:14 UTC
Once again with the assumptions that everything that CCP does is for "the greater good."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#502 - 2015-02-22 01:15:56 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Once again with the assumptions that everything that CCP does is for "the greater good."
Lol, Sorry, I forgot to qualify that one with "My opinion is", since apparently I have to state that, while everything you say is factually true.

I'll not though that the post of yours I responded to earlier, about the CNR, you stating that all players in a CNR are not noobs, even though they clearly don;t know what they are doing f they get awoxed, that's obviously pure fact, right?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#503 - 2015-02-22 01:20:35 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Drez Arthie wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The biggest anti-awox supporters all sit in NPC corporations to avoid wars, because the NPC tax is very inconsequential for them, seeing as how very little high-sec income comes from bounties.


The biggest war dec'ers sit their alts in NPC corporations to make ISK as well, I'd wager. Who would know better how to avoid war then one who makes war for a living?

I don't know any players who do wars and mine/run missions for income. Any who do need an income source either do 0.0/wormhole pve, for which NPC corporations provide no benefit, or do incursions, and do them while in player corporations, because they're confident enough in their own understanding of the game to avoid any potential problems with aggression. So no, you're wrong on that account.

That's not to say, however, that empire warriors don't have NPC-corp characters for various purposes, such as hauling. Obviously, if an advantageous feature is available, there's no reason not to use it. Of course, they still want to see it gone.
Lol?

You just got over saying earlier that PvE outside of highsec is useless because highsec PvE rewards surpassed it. Now the veteran players in the wardec corps PvE in null and wh space because they are so super pro. So they purposely earn less income because they know what they are doing?

And I take it this is once again one of those facts I'm not allowed to dispute since you obviously know what everyone's doing on their out of corp alts?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#504 - 2015-02-22 01:21:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Once again with the assumptions that everything that CCP does is for "the greater good."
Lol, Sorry, I forgot to qualify that one with "My opinion is", since apparently I have to state that, while everything you say is factually true.

I'll not though that the post of yours I responded to earlier, about the CNR, you stating that all players in a CNR are not noobs, even though they clearly don;t know what they are doing f they get awoxed, that's obviously pure fact, right?

"Noob" means a "new player." That's a fact. Someone who's been playing for a long time but is still oblivious to game mechanics isn't a noob, but a scrub. One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#505 - 2015-02-22 01:29:13 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Once again with the assumptions that everything that CCP does is for "the greater good."
Lol, Sorry, I forgot to qualify that one with "My opinion is", since apparently I have to state that, while everything you say is factually true.

I'll not though that the post of yours I responded to earlier, about the CNR, you stating that all players in a CNR are not noobs, even though they clearly don;t know what they are doing f they get awoxed, that's obviously pure fact, right?

"Noob" means a "new player." That's a fact. Someone who's been playing for a long time but is still oblivious to game mechanics isn't a noob, but a scrub. One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."
So wait, earlier on your referred to a fictional mackinaw pilot s a noob, yet you can be in a CNR in less time than a mackinaw. In fact, you can be in a CNR in less than a week. We've seen in past ALODs that players in fact by a PLEX, sell it on the market and bling out a mission battleship. So no, one would *not* think that someone who has decided to suicide a blinged out faction battleship by jumping into a corporation that openly recruits awoxers is automatically not a noob because of the price tag.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#506 - 2015-02-22 01:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
The amount of time required to get into a ship isn't the sole determining factor that determines the level of experience a player has attained. Mining has a different dynamic, and someone who makes a beeline for an exhumer can be objectively more noobish than someone who's fitting advanced modules to a faction battleship in order to run level 4 missions. Furthermore, how a player chooses to fund his gameplay is entirely his problem. Buying PLEX isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card for being killed by others.

Let me phrase that a different way: buying PLEX isn't a metric for a player's skill, because constants must be kept equal in the consideration. Buying PLEX can fuel the purchase and equipment of a mining character as well as one for missions.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#507 - 2015-02-22 01:38:54 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The amount of time required to get into a ship isn't the sole determining factor that determines the level of experience a player has attained. Mining has a different dynamic, and someone who makes a beeline for an exhumer can be objectively more noobish than someone who's fitting advanced modules to a faction battleship in order to run level 4 missions. Furthermore, how a player chooses to fund his gameplay is entirely his problem. Buying PLEX isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card for being killed by others.
lol, you're missing the point. You're claiming that the act of buying a blinged out CNR makes you a veteran player, as itf no noob would ever do such a thing. You're not being objective at all, you're simply stating something that you believe as if it's fact, despite the fact that the price tag doesn't exclude noobs since they can and do buy PLEX.

And at no point did I suggest buying PLEX does or should be a get-out-of-jail-free card. But it doesn't automatically stop a player being new to the game either.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#508 - 2015-02-22 01:39:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You're claiming that the act of buying a blinged out CNR makes you a veteran player, as itf no noob would ever do such a thing.

No, I'm not.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#509 - 2015-02-22 01:43:08 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
You're claiming that the act of buying a blinged out CNR makes you a veteran player, as itf no noob would ever do such a thing.
No, I'm not.
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#510 - 2015-02-22 01:44:21 UTC
"Being around long enough to" and "buying a PLEX" are two entirely different things.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#511 - 2015-02-22 01:48:40 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
"Being around long enough to" and "buying a PLEX" are two entirely different things.
Lol. You say "been around long enough to", but that means "1 week", because buying plex eliminates the time you need to be around.

I tell you what I'm just gonna drop this here. Anyone reading can clearly see you're just making it up as you go along and you refuse to accept that what come out of your mouth isn't pure fact. Arguing with you is completely pointless since you're obviously always right, even when you're not. So go be the epic super vet that you are, I'm gonna go hang around in reality for a bit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#512 - 2015-02-22 01:57:20 UTC
You're right, you should drop it here. If you don't understand the difference between playing the game for a period of time in order to acquire the skills and skill points in order to do something, and selling PLEXes in order to fund instant gratification character and gear purchases, then you don't have the required understanding of the topical considerations in order to argue in this debate.

Perhaps someone who understands that comparing a miner who trained and played for his skills and gear to a mission-runner who bought both is like comparing apples to oranges, can take over for you in this discussion.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#513 - 2015-02-22 02:03:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You're right, you should drop it here. If you don't understand the difference between playing the game for a period of time in order to acquire the skills and skill points in order to do something, and selling PLEXes in order to fund instant gratification character and gear purchases, then you don't have the required understanding of the topical considerations in order to argue in this debate.

Perhaps someone who understands that comparing a miner who trained and played for his skills and gear to a mission-runner who bought both is like comparing apples to oranges, can take over for you in this discussion.
Ha! Yeah, I'm the one that doesn't understand that! You literally stated that the act of owning a blinged CNR can be assumed to not be a noob, simply because of the price tag. Look:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."
And I'm the one who's got problems understanding?

ROFL. Stop being terrible.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#514 - 2015-02-22 02:05:41 UTC
At no point did I state "because of the price tag." Your red herrings aren't fooling anyone.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#515 - 2015-02-22 02:15:35 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
At no point did I state "because of the price tag." Your red herrings aren't fooling anyone.
???????????????
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."

So what relevance is "half-billion isk" in this quote? If ISK is irrelevant, then your quote should be:
wrote:
One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a ship, and fit it out with gear, is no longer a "noob."
which makes even less sense.

These are your own words. And now you are arguing against them and somehow I'm in the wrong?

I'll make it simple. A noob can fly a CNR. Noobs do in fact fly CNRs At no point does the act of being in a CNR make you not a noob, thus one would *not* think anything about a player's duration in EVE based on the ship they fly, half-billion isk or not. Your original point was that this change, which CCP have made *specifically* to help new players is actually designed to help veteran players avoid being awoxed, even though veteran players already had multiple ways to avoid that and so didn't actually need this change. Obviously though because you're amazing and all that, you must be right and it's all a CCP conspiracy. I imagine you don't believe the moon landing or 9/11 were all they were stated to be either.

The short of it is though is the change is in, it's not going away, no matter how much you choose to complain about it. So by all means continue to run around in circular arguments with yourself in a futile attempt to change something which isn't going to change. I'm done wasting my time discussing this with someone like yourself who is obviously *always* right. So good day to you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#516 - 2015-02-22 02:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
The fact that you've been relying on telling me to "HTFU" and "get out of the game," and constantly claiming that I'm trying to bring awoxing back with my complaints (despite the fact that I've never done such a thing), shows that you were "done" quite a while ago. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#517 - 2015-02-22 05:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dun'Gal
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Once again with the assumptions that everything that CCP does is for "the greater good."
Lol, Sorry, I forgot to qualify that one with "My opinion is", since apparently I have to state that, while everything you say is factually true.

I'll not though that the post of yours I responded to earlier, about the CNR, you stating that all players in a CNR are not noobs, even though they clearly don;t know what they are doing f they get awoxed, that's obviously pure fact, right?

"Noob" means a "new player." That's a fact. Someone who's been playing for a long time but is still oblivious to game mechanics isn't a noob, but a scrub. One would think that a player who's been around long enough to get into a half-billion-ISK ship, and fit it out with faction gear, is no longer a "noob."

If i may interject, in many circles a noob is in fact someone who does embarrasingly bad things while having the experience to know better, while a newb is a new player, and a scrub is simply someone who is unskilled at the game, doing stupid things is not a requisite for being a scrub btw.

The two of you are being huge noobs in this thread, and are probably also scrubs.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#518 - 2015-02-22 05:52:45 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Plenty of opportunity for piracy

This is objectively untrue though. There are so few players in non-highsec areas of space, and so few of them are what could be called "piracy targets," that it would be entirely impossible for the game's pirates to subsist outside of high-sec. Just because you found a decent target recently doesn't mean that that's the status quo. I don't know if you've read earlier in the thread, but this question has been asked before (and not answered by anyone, still): why should we go to low/null in order to try to scrape the bare edibles from the charred rims of the pot, when high-sec offers us what we want in satisfying, sustainable amounts?


I don't agree with you there. I've been on ALOT of juicy killmails on fleet roams in lowsec and even pulled faction loot off some of them. Whereas the majority of kills I see on merc boards in highsec are lolfit barges and tech 1 subcaps. Because the people who fly faction fit marauders in highsec generally are the epitome of risk averse. They are mostly in NPC corps, or they dock during wardecs, and they never shoot the flashy yellow rats in their mission (almost never).

There are lots of faction fit ships to be killed in lowsec. I see the mails EVERY day in militia chat. It just requires some semblance of tactical thought.

As to your question - I would say that you have a choice in the matter. No one is forcing you to live out your days violencing newbs and the careless in highsec. I can think of a great many ways to pick up interesting kills in lowsec with a competent group of high SP players. If all you want out of EVE is cheap and easy kills then you're right, there is no reason to leave highsec as long as the war system exists in its current form. It's just hypocritical to argue that risk vs reward is broken vis a vis highsec income right before you undock your vigilant to go pull 10M in loot out of a tech 1 fit mission boat.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#519 - 2015-02-22 06:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Good kills happen more often in high-sec, and in higher numbers, than anywhere else. There's ten times the population in high-sec compared to low-sec, and even if the proportion of good to bad kills in low-sec is nine times as high as high-sec, that means there are still more good kills in high-sec than in low-sec. However, the reality is that most kills in non-high-sec areas of space, excluding wormholes, are utterly mediocre and unprofitable, because fat haulers and deadspace missioners simply don't exist there. Just because you've seen/been part of some great kills doesn't mean that that's the status quo. Exceptions don't make a rule.

So no, you didn't really answer my question, since your answer relies on the premise that I have to go to low-sec and work much harder for the same, or most likely lower rewards. Even if we're talking about pulling 10m worth of loot from a missioner, I can still do that twenty times in high-sec in the amount of time it would take me to do it once in low-sec. If I'm fighting for profit, there's very little sense in leaving high-sec in order to chase unicorns elsewhere.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2015-02-22 06:08:42 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Plenty of opportunity for piracy

This is objectively untrue, though. There are so few players in non-highsec areas of space, and so few of them are what could be called "piracy targets," that it would be entirely impossible for the game's pirates to subsist outside of high-sec. Just because you found a decent target recently doesn't mean that that's the status quo. I don't know if you've read earlier in the thread, but this question has been asked before (and not answered by anyone, still): why should we go to low/null in order to try to scrape the bare edibles from the charred rims of the pot, when high-sec offers us what we want in satisfying, sustainable amounts?


Yep. Which is the root problem behind so many problems in the game; everything is so available and accessible in Hi Sec that the rest of the game is empty.


I think the root problem is the mentality that potentially fair fights are to be shunned at all cost. If you turn the game into an endless exercise in escalation and deck stacking eventually no one will undock. Right now the people providing content are those that aren't afraid to commit to risky/unequal fights and those that haven't learned to win EVE via total risk elimination with watchlists, intel channels, and a multi monitor setup with a legion of alts to augment their capabilities i.e. new and casual players.

Make EVE unplayable for casuals and there won't be any. Keep dropping overwhelming force on the people who bring you fights and they'll stop.

Nuking highsec incomes is not the solution.