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Dev blog: Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience

First post First post First post
Author
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#121 - 2015-02-20 11:48:41 UTC
Trying it out on Sisi atm and so far I like it. I do have one problem with it and that is the reward part. Not so much as an incentive but to get the things actually needed to do some of the early Opportunities. I follow the oppertunities in the default order and get to the inject a skill while still only having 5k credits. I am not sure what the cheapest skill in the game is but I am fairly sure that even if I go to that new noob plex and start farming 2k bounty npcs it's going to take a while before I can afford to buy that first skill to inject.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."

Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#122 - 2015-02-20 11:57:28 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
You need to have rewards, particularly if you are getting rid of the old tutorial system.

The current system sets new players up with:

  • A destroyer
  • Two industrial ships
  • Two mining frigates
  • One of each kind of T1 combat frigate
  • A variety of modules
  • Skill books to use all of the above.
  • Around 300k isk


That is a fortune to a new player. Don't take it away.



But they aren't taking it away. At least I don't think so. Can we get some clarification on this?

When i finished all the Opportunities that are available on Sisi atm it directed me to the career agents.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."

John WarpingSlow
#123 - 2015-02-20 12:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: John WarpingSlow
From the devblog:

Quote:

REWARDS

The final point I want to mention is that, for now at least, we have no rewards associated with completing Opportunities. One of our original goals was to separate tutorial content and rewards so that players don’t feel compelled to do something they aren’t interested in just for money. That said, we can also acknowledge that starting without tutorial rewards may be very harsh so we are still open to changes related to starting assets and income. This is something we hope to learn more about after release.


{ edit after reading more of the thread's posts }

I had been concerned that the new "opportunities" system replaced the existing career agents rather than supplementing them. From other CCP posts in the thread this does not seem to be the case.

That's good, as having access to career agents allows new players to get initial ISK and ships, and players that have damaged their faction standings will still be able to use any career agents they still have available to them to work the Faction Standing Repair Plan.

Good plan - keep both.
hfo ohforf
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
#124 - 2015-02-20 12:46:09 UTC
Starmap: i cant seem to zoom in far enough to see the moons (for scanning or warp-direction-bounces).
Beta Maoye
#125 - 2015-02-20 13:18:18 UTC
The Opportunities Map is interesting. "Time to fight" task is finely divided into several easily understood steps which is very nice.
Orbit a hostile
Lock a hostile
Activate weapons
Destory your target
Grab the loot

I hope someday the Opportunities Map will provide some kind of advance combat training such as hostile analysis. I would like to see "Hostile Analysis" training in the Opportunities Map to be something like that:
Assess a hostile
Type of ship and ship traits
Speed and Signature
Locking range and speed
Sensor type and strength
Tanking type
Resistance distribution
Weapon type
Damage distribution
Range of weapon
Tracking speed
Orbit distance

Subsequently the Opportunities Map will show players the fitting options available to them that is possible to counter each of the items in "Hostile Analysis". I think that will make new players appreciate the sophistication of eve combat early and thus having more fun in advancing their characters. Because kept being killed without knowing the reason is not fun at all.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2015-02-20 16:06:38 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
.. remove drones from non droneboats would also be nice


Why? Seriously, what would be the reasoning here?

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#127 - 2015-02-20 16:21:05 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
But they aren't taking it away. At least I don't think so.


Not in the near term, because replacing them is not easy. You don't want to change the NPE so that at the end of it newbies only have their rookie ship, 5,000 ISK, and a handful of achievements. As terrible as they are, the career agents (and Aura, through her oh-by-the-way tutorials) hand out a lot of useful stuff.

What I would change about the career agents:

1) The first thing they would do is give you a starter kit for their relevant arc. Scanning? Here's an Imicus (not a Navitas, as per the current agent, who only gives you an Imicus when you're done). Here are some skillbooks. These are the relevant hull bonuses that make it a good ship for the job, and here are some basic modules to take advantage of them. This way you learn what ships are good for what, instead of learning to use half-fit logistics frigates for just about everything except what they're bonused for.

2) If you're going to have a series of missions--or objectives--to give new players (potentially) tens of millions of ISK via mining (*cough* Cash Flow for Capsuleers *cough*), put asteroids in the overview, and if you don't give them a Venture at least give them a mining laser and a clue. To be fair, I understand that the default overview is no longer a joke. Excellent.

3) Teach the mechanics correctly. Webbing a ship doesn't make the pilot "stand down," not even if it's a rat pilot. Remote shield boosters don't repair warp drives. The starter kits would obviate the need for randomly handing out modules from multiple sources for what often seem like arbitrary reasons. Rewards should be rewards, not things you need for the next mission.

4) Flesh out the areas that the current agents only indirectly touch on: EWAR and logistics.

5) Downplay autopilot. Seriously.

It might be complex to code, I don't know, but I see an opportunity to add objectives for things like arbitrage and trading, too. Did you just fill up your Nereus in one station, fly to another, and sell at a 5% (or 10%, or more) profit? Objective! Did you do it in the same station? Objective! Etc.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2015-02-20 16:56:59 UTC
Hoshi wrote:
Dalloway Jones wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
You need to have rewards, particularly if you are getting rid of the old tutorial system.

The current system sets new players up with:

  • A destroyer
  • Two industrial ships
  • Two mining frigates
  • One of each kind of T1 combat frigate
  • A variety of modules
  • Skill books to use all of the above.
  • Around 300k isk


That is a fortune to a new player. Don't take it away.



But they aren't taking it away. At least I don't think so. Can we get some clarification on this?

When i finished all the Opportunities that are available on Sisi atm it directed me to the career agents.

Oh ok. Thank you.

I fully support the new system. I still favor some kind of reward for completing achievements, though.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#129 - 2015-02-20 17:25:37 UTC
In that example in the Devblog I got a bit confused about the names of the opportunities.

"let's get moving"
"to the stars"
"faster than light"

???

So which one actually tells me how to move?
(assuming I am new to the game I might not even know there is a difference between warping and jumping - but I am stuck here even as a vet)

Maybe better stick to the paradigm "fluff follows function" ;-)

Possibly the opportunities could be named like questions?
E.g.

How do I ...
... move my ship around?
... warp to something?
... travel to another star system?

and please please

HOW DO I MAKE MONEY???
(because that is the only thing 76% of all new players think about)
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#130 - 2015-02-20 18:01:14 UTC
Opportunities seems to be a great possibility for increasing new player experience. I think it has also potential for adding a little bit more pve content, next to lvl 4 missions, incursions etc.

I would like to see some grades of increased difficulty. May be like associate, professional and expert, while associate would be the absolut begining experience and expert would be something you can do only in a high skilled group of people.
While associate would lead new players only through highsec, the professional would lead them to low sec, null sec and wormhole.
Jackyla Terokkar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2015-02-20 18:05:18 UTC
Hoshi wrote:
Trying it out on Sisi atm and so far I like it. I do have one problem with it and that is the reward part. Not so much as an incentive but to get the things actually needed to do some of the early Opportunities. I follow the oppertunities in the default order and get to the inject a skill while still only having 5k credits. I am not sure what the cheapest skill in the game is but I am fairly sure that even if I go to that new noob plex and start farming 2k bounty npcs it's going to take a while before I can afford to buy that first skill to inject.



I agree with Hoshi in his concern. I think the cheapest skillbook available on the Market is 75k ISK. The starting opportunities only give you 11k (5k inheritance and 6k for bounties).
You wont be directed to the Career agents after you finish ALL the opportunities (so a new player will have to come up with the 75k ISK to complete the opportunities, before he is referenced to the Career agents.
Jackyla Terokkar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2015-02-20 18:12:32 UTC
Another comment I would like to make is that, after Declining the initial offer to do the Opportunities I could not find a link to the Opportunities map in neither Neocomm, nor the character sheet; I could also not find an option to reset the tutorial (in the hopes of getting the offer again)

(I finally managed to get the Opportunities map after completing one at random and double clicking that notification)


Jackyla Terokkar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2015-02-20 18:20:09 UTC
The current text for "Inject a New Skill" is:
"New skills can be acquired from the Market. A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."

As a non english person, this was a somewhat non logical order. I somehow linked getting the new skillbook with the ISIS. Would the sentence not be better like :
"A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. New skills can be acquired from the Market. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."


Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#134 - 2015-02-20 19:05:16 UTC
Jackyla Terokkar wrote:
The current text for "Inject a New Skill" is:
"New skills can be acquired from the Market. A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."

As a non english person, this was a somewhat non logical order. I somehow linked getting the new skillbook with the ISIS. Would the sentence not be better like :
"A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. New skills can be acquired from the Market. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."


This native English speaker approves of your reordering.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#135 - 2015-02-20 19:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Darkblad wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Why not start the game as a "CQ simulation" in a shielded set of systems (only accessed by new characters), where all the characters have a whole bunch of SP and have unlimited access to premade bigger/cooler ships, BS, perhaps logistics, inties and whatnot of all races. Where they can toy around, do funky tutorials "kill that BS with your bomber", "use this AF to kill a BC", "use this BR to evade a gatecamp", "use this orca to gang boost these npc miners for a minute (while having gang links explained in the mean time) after which you have to haul their mined ore back to station" etc etc etc. Funky stuff, advanced play styles but brought in a basic, easy to understand manner. Where every completed challenge would give that new character some related skills and assets upon completion of the entire tutorial.
Rookies have other challenges to master that may appear tiny for veterans. Giving them the opportunity (sic!) to board a ship they can fly once they're adult but still being unaware of the core mechanics won't help that much. However, such experiences could certainly trigger an Opportunity, so once the rookie has reached a point where he did this all by himself provides some further feeling of having achieved something.



The tutorial should achieve two things:

- give newbies some basic knowledge (the current tutorial is retardedly long, boring and prone to make newbies quit)
- make them go "holy shitballs, this is COOL!", that will result in them being more willing to invest time to conquer the initial brick wall


Giving them a Rokh/Raven with incoming NPC at 240km where they have to work to kill them all before they get too close will surely get their attention more than "sit here in this ibis with a single pop gun". Sharpshooter Opportunity and they get the skill. It also conveys the idea that Caldari ships tend to be range focussed and on top of that after having tried different tactics people can find their own play style.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#136 - 2015-02-20 23:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
You might as well start each race off with a fit combat ship. A very basic ship, with very basic fits. Adjust the rookie ships slot layout as below.

The gallente noob ship, give it 2 training blasters, give it training ammo (can only be used in training blasters, about 2000 rounds), fit the mediums with a training afterburner and a training sensor dampener (extremely low effectiveness).
Fit the low with a training magnetic stabilizer and small training armor repairer.
The training blasters can also use t1 ammo. The training ammo cannot be put into any other weapon besides the training blaster.

The caldari noob ship should have two training rockets, training rocket ammo (2000 rounds)
It should have an afterburner, training shield booster, and a training multi spectrum ecm.
The low should have a training rocket ballistic system.

The minmatar noob ship should have two training auto cannons, with training rounds (2000).
It should have a training afterburner, a training target painter and a shield booster
The low should have a training gyrostabilizer.

The amarr noob ship should have 2 training pulse lasers, with two training crystals
The mods should have a afterburner, a training tracking disruptor
The lows should have a heat sink, a training armor repairer.

The ships should come with a training drone (gallente 2), of their races type.

What this does is introduce the new player into a viable noob ship, showing he basics of that races abilities, and introducing ewar from the get go. It also provides (on death), all players with a functional noob ship.

Set these people up from minute 0 with something that is fully functional and looks cool. In addition it gives them an idea of what the heck their actual ship fit should look like, so they are just a little less lost.

Mission rewards should give the players a ship, and a recommended fit. Yes recommend a fit for their ships they get. Recommend two options, a training fit and a player built fit (stop people from gouging newbies from day 1). You only need to hold their hand for a few hours until hey become less overwhelmed. People replicate what they see, and if you shownthem what it could look like, they can expand on it.

You may just want to keep them in that rookie ship till they are comfy. Sometimes immediately throwing a new ship at them when they have no clue what a fit is.. Dunno.

The first 5 minutes. An intro to eve online

Let's simplify the introduction to eve. Start them in a blank system with nobody there. Teach them how to move around with the keys (WASD, these should be already pre mapped by default in all new installations, fix this) and the overview (hide everything else, the left bar, capacitor, fittings, chat, hide it all). Once they have succeeded in moving, introduce them to right click menu. Make them do three types of warps. Make them jump a gate (move systems). Have them warp to a coordinate on the overview, then Have a Titan of the race of the pilot cyno in, introduce the Titan and tell them this is the largest ship, that players and corporations own these and costs hundreds of billions, and some other fluff about interaction, butteryfly effects, etc. do a visual walk around of the Titan so they see it and remember it. If you want, have a super or something else there looking pretty. this should be in text and voice acted. Then tell the player to approach the Titan manually or by the overview, let the player right click on the Titan and take a Titan bridge (hide all other rightclick menus at this time). Have the Titan do a countdown (it's fake but that's fine). After that, once in the new system, introduce them to the probe system (so they know there is more crap than what is just on overview), show them a green anomaly and have them warp to it. It is a wormhole. Introduce them to right clicking the wormhole, showing how to read the text so they know wtf it is (this introduces them to Show Info). They've now seen a gate, seen a Titan, and seen a wormhole. They jump the wormhole. The wormhole spits them out in their designated rookie system.

There goes your newbie island. No need for combat, crazy long explanations (comes later) or some gigantic mess of hundreds of UI buttons. It's their newbie ship, the overview (everything else including local, in game chat rooms, etc is hidden), and three objectives. Move around, warp to stuff, make three jumps (gate, Titan bridge, wormhole). They see something cool, they learn to move, they get comfortable with the core element of eve (the overview), and they are not overwhelmed. It teaches them the CORE of interacting with eve, which is movement, overview, exploration, rightclick, show info, what is a bridge, what is a gate, what is a wormhole. They now have the ability to learn.

You don't need massive detail, you need to remove 90% of eve's UI for the first 5 minutes so they can get comfy with it. You can expand on that if needed, but ultimately the first 5 minutes should be, move your ship, see something huge and cool, jump and see the three major jump effects, and rightclick stuff.

That's the intro.

After that, introduce the capacitor bar, other menus, etc. go Over the buttons (you can because you have a fit ship). After that aura does a decent job. Basically mission 1 from here on out.

With all of that, realize that All the vets of eve experience the new player experience each time they die and wind up in that hunk of poorly fit rookie ship with the single titanium. Upgrade the ship to reflect their race at least with basic noob functionality.

Yaay!!!!

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#137 - 2015-02-21 00:30:22 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
You might as well start each race off with a fit combat ship. A very basic ship, with very basic fits. Adjust the rookie ships slot layout as below.

The gallente noob ship, give it 2 training blasters, give it training ammo (can only be used in training blasters, about 2000 rounds), fit the mediums with a training afterburner and a training sensor dampener (extremely low effectiveness).
Fit the low with a training magnetic stabilizer and small training armor repairer.
The training blasters can also use t1 ammo. The training ammo cannot be put into any other weapon besides the training blaster.

The caldari noob ship should have two training rockets, training rocket ammo (2000 rounds)
It should have an afterburner, training shield booster, and a training multi spectrum ecm.
The low should have a training rocket ballistic system.

The minmatar noob ship should have two training auto cannons, with training rounds (2000).
It should have a training afterburner, a training target painter and a shield booster
The low should have a training gyrostabilizer.

The amarr noob ship should have 2 training pulse lasers, with two training crystals
The mods should have a afterburner, a training tracking disruptor
The lows should have a heat sink, a training armor repairer.

The ships should come with a training drone (gallente 2), of their races type.

What this does is introduce the new player into a viable noob ship, showing he basics of that races abilities, and introducing ewar from the get go. It also provides (on death), all players with a functional noob ship.

Set these people up from minute 0 with something that is fully functional and looks cool. In addition it gives them an idea of what the heck their actual ship fit should look like, so they are just a little less lost.

Mission rewards should give the players a ship, and a recommended fit. Yes recommend a fit for their ships they get. Recommend two options, a training fit and a player built fit (stop people from gouging newbies from day 1). You only need to hold their hand for a few hours until hey become less overwhelmed. People replicate what they see, and if you shownthem what it could look like, they can expand on it.

You may just want to keep them in that rookie ship till they are comfy. Sometimes immediately throwing a new ship at them when they have no clue what a fit is.. Dunno.

The first 5 minutes. An intro to eve online

Let's simplify the introduction to eve. Start them in a blank system with nobody there. Teach them how to move around with the keys (WASD, these should be already pre mapped by default in all new installations, fix this) and the overview (hide everything else, the left bar, capacitor, fittings, chat, hide it all). Once they have succeeded in moving, introduce them to right click menu. Make them do three types of warps. Make them jump a gate (move systems). Have them warp to a coordinate on the overview, then Have a Titan of the race of the pilot cyno in, introduce the Titan and tell them this is the largest ship, that players and corporations own these and costs hundreds of billions, and some other fluff about interaction, butteryfly effects, etc. do a visual walk around of the Titan so they see it and remember it. If you want, have a super or something else there looking pretty. this should be in text and voice acted. Then tell the player to approach the Titan manually or by the overview, let the player right click on the Titan and take a Titan bridge (hide all other rightclick menus at this time). Have the Titan do a countdown (it's fake but that's fine). After that, once in the new system, introduce them to the probe system (so they know there is more crap than what is just on overview), show them a green anomaly and have them warp to it. It is a wormhole. Introduce them to right clicking the wormhole, showing how to read the text so they know wtf it is (this introduces them to Show Info). They've now seen a gate, seen a Titan, and seen a wormhole. They jump the wormhole. The wormhole spits them out in their designated rookie system.

There goes your newbie island. No need for combat, crazy long explanations (comes later) or some gigantic mess of hundreds of UI buttons. It's their newbie ship, the overview (everything else including local, in game chat rooms, etc is hidden), and three objectives. Move around, warp to stuff, make three jumps (gate, Titan bridge, wormhole). They see something cool, they learn to move, they get comfortable with the core element of eve (the overview), and they are not overwhelmed. It teaches them the CORE of interacting with eve, which is movement, overview, exploration, rightclick, show info, what is a bridge, what is a gate, what is a wormhole. They now have the ability to learn.

You don't need massive detail, you need to remove 90% of eve's UI for the first 5 minutes so they can get comfy with it. You can expand on that if needed, but ultimately the first 5 minutes should be, move your ship, see something huge and cool, jump and see the three major jump effects, and rightclick stuff.

That's the intro.

After that, introduce the capacitor bar, other menus, etc. go Over the buttons (you can because you have a fit ship). After that aura does a decent job. Basically mission 1 from here on out.

With all of that, realize that All the vets of eve experience the new player experience each time they die and wind up in that hunk of poorly fit rookie ship with the single titanium. Upgrade the ship to reflect their race at least with basic noob functionality.


I really like the idea of showing new players how a ship is "properly" fit. Get them used to a balance of offensive, defensive, propulsion etc. modules.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#138 - 2015-02-21 02:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
I had a chance to check this out on SiSi and I like where it's going. A few points I'd like to reiterate (mine and others):

• There needs to be some sort of reward/incentive. Carrots are good (SP is even better for new pilots).
• While I realize this is the 'initial' release, some foresight should be given now into organizing this into more categories, ie: Basics, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert, etc.
• There also needs to be some kind of Daily|Weekly|Monthly reward system (again, SP) tired into both PvE and PvP activities. Trading, industry, exploration, mining, combat, etc. Not only would this greatly enhance PvE (which is sorely lacking at present), but it would encourage players to actually undock and entail some risk.

Some examples for daily 'Opportunities' could include things like:
• Sneak into a low-sec system without being detected (locked)
• Extract yourself from or dodge a low-sec gate camp trap
• Bump a miner or steal from a miner
• Steal some mission loot or interfere with another mission (NPC triggers)
• Gain % corporation or faction standing
• Come to the aid of another player under attack (NPC or player)

Again, I can't really emphasize enough of having SP for a reward. You can make (or buy) ISK, but training into new skills is the biggest hurdle and challenge in retaining new players.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#139 - 2015-02-21 06:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
Opportunities:

Isk's No Object: Fly a faction ship
Investor: Complete a buy/sell order
Resist Hole: reach 80% resist profile on any damage type
Lore: Complete an Epic Mission Arc
Good Samaritan: Complete a COSMOS mission
Vigilante: Kill a suspect/criminally flagged player
Bounty Hunter: Activate a kill right and collect a bounty
Ashes To Ashes: Destroy a Clone Soldier
Dust to Dust: Do an orbital bombardment

Rewards:

SoE epic arc rewards 250k SP upon completion(can be done once only, who does it twice anyway!)
Do tutorial missions still reward 1m+ on the last few missions completed? If they have high payouts (for a new player), maybe this will encourage newbro's to complete every tutorial.
Chu Jung
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2015-02-21 07:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Chu Jung
I think to truly improve the new player experience you need to show all the ways a new person can earn isk.

At the end of the day when you dump them in the sandbox and say "good luck".. the first thing they'll think is "i need money". MMO's have taught us that their are two ways to earn money.. "questing" and "farming".. how do those activities translate to EVE?? Missions and mining.. the two most boring and least compelling features of your game. (which by the way is something that does deserve some time.. as they could be far more interesting and dynamic than they are currently are)

Not just "distribution", "combat", "mining". Explain faction warfare and what is needed to get started and to actually make money from that activity. What are incursions, is that something that you can do on day1? So future planning will be involved, what will that entail?