Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes, true, however it's not the cyno ship that's the issue here. It's what the cyno ship is beaconing for is the matter at hand.

In which case the fate of the cyno ship is inconsequential and thus should not enter into the discussion.

So... whats wrong with a garage door if the cyno itself gets displaced or even destroyed if the force field goes back up?

If exposing the incoming ship is that big of a deal, then the a Cyno on station should also be considered an exploit and forced 25km away from station. If that is allowed, then allowing the cyno within the confines of an unraised force field should be fine so long as the beacon is moved or disrupted should the force field come up.

- remember the 25KM distance was to prevent bumping ships (like Titans) out of a POS.

You need to recognize the context of why people use this tactic. The most typical use of this tactic is to do no-risk cyno'ing of a super or titan into a safe POS. Yes, lighting a cyno is not an exploit. By itself, lighting a cyno next to anything is not an exploit. But the combination of lighting a cyno next to a Online/no-FF Tower only to immediately raise the force field once the super/titan hits grid is questionable, as the intent of this whole chain of events is to move a capital using method that has no reasonable counter or exposure to any danger.

Say you're the super/titan pilot. You jump to your Garage-Door cyno and you land on grid next to the Tower. While you still have post-jump invuln, you right-click the tower, select Manage, paste in a pre-set password from your clipboard in the two fields, and hit Apply. Bam. Force field goes up before both your post-jump invulnerability and session change expires. Fully zero-risk. While you wait for your jump fatigue to tick down, you're on your alt setting up your next tower, and you can go from one end of Eve to the other like this.

I don't think you're familiar with my group. Over the past 3 years we've killed trillions of ISK in JFs and Carriers on stations, and often well-within docking range. That's no problem. Even there, at least, are opportunities for the watchful and patient. Besides, I'm not talking about stations. I'm talking about POSes. Unlike a POS, you can't light a cyno and up a station around it.

You need to be a supercap/titan pilot, as well as one who hunts them as their day job, to really understand this sort of thing rather than conjecture around about it.

See heres the thing with Station cyno against a POS cyno..
doesnt matter when or where you do your cyno around station and that you have the ability to dock whatever ship you cyno in, but the cyno ship it self has now way of exploiting this... as in the cyno will always be exposed and therefore you can kill it to either prevent more things from coming in and what not.
Also the intent of cynoing onto a station is pretty normal, its your destination and also you could dock.
I guess you could argue as well that there is now counter to someone cynoing onto a station and staying invul till able to dock.
but remember not all stations are created equally, some have a trickyness into them that you have to know where to cyno so u dont get your self bump, meaning if stupidity is involved chances are you might die :p

as for the topic on POS's there is just no way in hell to counter it.
also you can tell it all you want... once cyno is lit u can eject the ship out of POS and have it expose, sure, problem is this method is exploitable and its up to the user to decide how they do it. meaning intent is clear for the user to use this method cuz they know theres no known counter to it.

sure you can do it in a non exploited manner, but that isnt always the case unlike cyno on station theres just NO WAY for you to do it differently.

a Possible counter you can think of? well I guess you could cyno ur fleet of ships onto the cyno of the pos owner and hope your ships gets on grid first before the FF goes up and pray your ships gets ejected and hope that you bounce the target off...

the 25km rule to counter the Titan Bowling... is kinda a work around and less thought fix from CCP end... they could have done better but doing better means it will take more time and resources to recode the pos mechanics.

why cant they just rewrite the POS & Cyno code to like, all ships cannot land on the FF range, or why cant they just change the collission detection on FF so that regardless of what it is, nothing can bump inside of it? theres alot of things CCP could have done but they chose the easier method and because of it, alot of users are forced to do the Garage trick cause they know its easy and safe.

although what if you do the following?

you have your POS Online with no FF, you cyno next to it... you wait your cyno timer, timer is done and now you put ur FF up...

its kinda the same but this is totally not consider an exploit or an intent to exploit the matter.

but its not the same when, someone does the same and knowing theres a threat in system, you immediately put your bubble up to keep you safe, sure you can have your cyno ship ejected and therefor have it vulnerable, but the intent is clear you use a method with an advantage of knowing theres nothing they can do.

if and ever in a real world application I would consider this a valid tactic, but since this is a game, that mechanic is not intended to be used, or maybe it is, but thats for CCP to clarify.

You should know by know that things don't get fixed until GSF abuse the ever loving **** out of it.

oh man +1

My question is, why does this even matter? I notice this didn't seem to be a problem before people started using it, or at least no one had bothered to post in forums about it. Oh, but now that more people are starting to find out they can use this to protect their giant space cocks, it's suddenly so horrible and has to be nerfed into extinction yesterday!!!! Of course, I don't fly giant space cocks, will never fly giant space cocks, and could not care less about giant space cocks. I just think it's kind of pathetic that a tactic no one ever complained publicly about is now suddenly such a terrible exploit.

There were two main groups of people aware of this tactic before the changes to the distance from forcefield/cyno mechanic came in:

• Those who used it, knowing it to be an exploit, to move capitals in a 100% risk free environment despite the so called 'punishments' from CCP.
• Those who hunted other people jumping capitals to POS cyno's.

Neither group would have benefit from having this issue drawn to wider attention until recently when it's use has become so widespread, and what seems to be apathy on CCPs part to take action against people using it, that it's time for CCP to actually fix it.

When this tactic was rarely used, you could either report it or not; depending how you feel that day. CCP has already tacitly said this is illegal, however since there really isn't no reasonable way to tell if they take any action against the perp (even if it's just a warning), the fact that it was a then-rare occurrence kinda meant that you could just ignore it.

Now, however, its use has exploded, and with it petitions from me and my group of hunters (at least us; likely others too) every time we see it. Yet we see the offending chars who are reported continue to log in for weeks afterwards. This could mean they got a warning, or if this is worthy of a temp ban, the temp ban isn't being handed down. So for all we know, CCP is doing nothing, despite having already ruled this an illegal move.

My OP is an attempt to get CCP to finally confront this and back up their own rules. If they (the GMs) cannot or refuse to do this via the petition system, then they (the Devs) should finally get down and enforce it via the game itself, thereby obviating the need for any petitions and complaints about this in the future.