Warfare & Tactics

It seems like one of the biggest gripes about FW is that it all seems like it's just small ship pvp and no one flies anything above frigs and dessies. While this isn't actually true, it is the case that system pushes create incentives that favor small ship fleets over large ones. Because novices and smalls can be run faster (10min and 15min to complete, respectively) than the mediums and larges (both 20min), if you can't control all the plexes, it makes the most sense to control the smallest types, since completing those will put you ahead on your contestation rate (however slow that might actually be). Hence, for large system pushes it is rare you'll see any fleets of anything above cruiser hull size, and even those are not nearly as common as frig/dessy fleets.

My proposal is that they simply invert the completion times. Have mediums and larges complete in 10min, smalls stay at 15min, and novices take 20min. We can change the LP values so that the larges, mediums, and novices have the same LP/min payout as before, but for large pushes, fleet comps made of bigger ship hulls will be favored.

Thoughts?

If you want to use plex sizes/times to push the meta for system contestations to larger ship comps why not start with some middle ground and make FW plexes all take the same amount of time to complete?

I worry though about how it will impact things on the solo/micro gang front, as well as for people who may just want to log in for 20-30 minutes, run a plex and maybe get a fight. Doing so in a novice or small at the moment is ideal because of the lower amount of time needed.

Interesting idea though.

I like everything about that except slower system flips.

Damn, never thought I would agree with Zen.....


+1 to zen

I was kindof disappointed that the new Large Plex wasn't gated for BC down. I never got to experience the heyday of BC plex fights, and from what I've heard they could be really cool.

Thankfully, I never had to deal with clearing the NPCs during Plex battles. Or having my fleet jammed out by caldari rats during a fight. Pretty much all I was doing in those days was orbiting the buttan at high speed in my dual rep Incursus.

I don't think GalMil would be unhappy at all to dunk nullsec BC fleets in plex fights. Even scaling up the combat ship class wise, fighting in a Plex is different than the kind of battles Nullsec sov warfare generates.

I'm sure they wouldn't, however I don't see this happening for long if they decide to stick around. Anyway that is beside the point. It would not be the militias as you see them in one coordinated effort that would loose out. It would be the militias as in the solo pilots, the smaller corps and independent groups, the guys who make faction warfare the small gang and solo PvP haven it is.

Logging in for 15-30 mins at a time and having a #gudfight in a cheap fun ship on your doorstep is not some thing found everywhere in this game.

BC fights were **** and slow. Drakes and canes vs drakes and canes. People who recall this with rose tinted glasses really make my eyes roll.

I personally think a better way to address this would be to change the VP points for plexes

currently;

Novice = 20VP
Small = 20VP
Medium = 20VP
Large = 20VP

= total of 80VP

My proposal;

Novice = 10VP
Small = 15VP
Medium = 20VP
Large = 35VP

= total of 80VP

No changes to timers or LP payout is required.

This does 2 things. It slightly reduces the impact of low SP alts on occupancy. It also means the side that controls the larger plexes can make progress against a side that will not ship up past corms. Progress also reflects time and risk spend inside plexes.


ALTERNATIVELY, TiDi should be 80% inside novice and small plexes to satisfy those that seem to value battleship pixels over frigate pixels. So people can have the best of both worlds.

Hm. Fair enough, mebbe that's why they went away? Honestly I'm mostly fine with things as they are, plex mechanics wise. Not sure what needs to be done to liven up FW but I think we've come as far as we can by tweaking the existing content.

A consequence of this is that whichever side has the sp and isk to produce a fleet that the other side simply can't fight will be able to win a system without fighting. One of the great things about FW is that there is a minimal SP bar to being able to make a significant contribution. Changing the equation so that the larger plexes are more deceisive that the frig/dessie ones will mean system control battles will be foregone conclusions before they start or will be determined by one or two fights between big and expensive fleets, after which the losers will not be able to afford to come back in the same and at which point the novices and smalls will not be worth contesting because they will not allow the system to be held in any case.

The side that will not ship up past corms is already at a disadvantage and the side that will ship up will already make progress as long as it doesn't lose ALL the novices and smalls. I don't think we should be setting up a system where you can lose or not contest every single novice and small plex and still win.