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SKYNET.

First post
Author
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-02-19 18:30:03 UTC
Oh, another one of these threads...
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#22 - 2015-02-19 19:01:51 UTC
I don't see how this is a problem, unless your name is either John or Sarah Connor..





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#23 - 2015-02-19 19:07:33 UTC
Working fine thnx.

In fact, lets get some t2 fighters that wtfown frigates for thinking they can stand up to a fighter swarm without a fleet.

That'l fix the true problem.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-02-19 19:12:55 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Fighters seem to be fine in my book so I don't really know what the OP is complaining about.


http://puu.sh/g3jX2/fa783efa62.jpg

You really want to try saying that again with a straight face. Straight



Yep Fighters seem fine to me if you cant beat them join them right....

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-02-19 19:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: RomeStar
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
I have been in fights with these fighters. They still have plenty of tracking problems. You also learn where these guys are, its not like they have a POS in every system. And if your doing FW or some such in such a system, it is not so hard to deal with the drones with a proper fleet. These things are not cheap (fighters and fighter bombers. )

But they don't show up on kill boards :(

Oh also does the carrier need to be outside the force field to assist? I would assume so, clearly dropping on top of a POS is no trivial matter however. But if so that is not zero risk.



Actually there is a risk free way of doing this and we call it a candy stick. What you do is anchor the pos fuel it and online it. Then you warp your carrier to it and open the manage box put in the password but don't hit apply unless something drops on top of you. This way you can assign fighters until your hearts content or somebody drops on you but in that case you hit apply and the shield goes up. Everyone who knows about fighters knows this little trick. The only way to counter this is too get a ship between the carrier and the stick before he puts up his shield that way when the shield goes up the enemy ship bumps the carrier out of the POS but you better be pretty damn fast or have a good warp in to do this because that shiled will go up fast. After that all the pilot has to do is rip the tower down and repackage it and take it back out takes about 30mins or so to resetup a candy stick.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#26 - 2015-02-19 19:34:09 UTC
No matter the outcome of this discussion considering how fast CCP adress balancing issues you better start training a Thanatos now, if you cant fly it yet.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#27 - 2015-02-19 19:41:42 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Fighters should lose the effects of all modules on the carrier/super once they are assigned.



I like this, or even off grid
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#28 - 2015-02-19 20:01:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The actual 'solution' (to this thing that isn't actually a problem) is to remove carrier and module bonuses from assigned fighters (like it used to be, fighters assigned from a Thanny were no better than any other carrier's fighters because the Thanny's fighter bonus wasn't applied to it's off grid fighters), not to screw with a mechanic that isn't actually the problem.

Ah, I probably misunderstood you the first time over. I thought you were advocating for making it so drone modules would not affect fighters at all. Now that I understood what you are actually saying, I agree.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#29 - 2015-02-19 20:01:51 UTC
Potamus Jenkins wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
Fighters should lose the effects of all modules on the carrier/super once they are assigned.



I like this, or even off grid


It wont happen, simply because the solution is too simple and elegant. It will probably be resolved with some kind of complicated Fighter Fatigue Timer and a needless Fighter Command and Control Deployable with a new toggle and some kind of faction implant acquired only from a new kind of highsec exploration site or randomly distributed level 2 mining mission.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#30 - 2015-02-19 20:52:40 UTC
Forgive me if i'm wrong, as its been a while since i used a carrier besides ratting, but once you go into a shield don;t you automatically recall your fighters? So wouldn;t a counter be to find the damn pos the carrier sits at and keep forcing him inside his shield? Then his fighters are now useless. or if your lucky you can bump him and kill him. Esp if the tower has no guns.

Back in the day you coudl deploy fighters, go in the shield and be 100% safe.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#31 - 2015-02-19 21:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
^^ Problem is you will need to escape the gate first (not easy), then find what POS the super/carriers are at and probably land something there that can last against any POS defences (if they are present) long enough to present a threat (though you might panic some into shields up). If you crash the gate with a decent force they will be nowhere to be seen anyhow.

Godfrey Silvarna wrote:

I don't think that damage application from on-grid carriers is an issue. Fighters have sufficiently bad tracking and velocity if you cannot afford to fill all of your module slots with tracking enhancers and navigation computers.


What I'm talking about (assuming the sig/damage scaling formula used for titans works as it should) would have no (or very minimal) impact on on-grid carriers but make it very hard for "skynet" fits to murder small stuff.

Delt0r Garsk wrote:
I have been in fights with these fighters. They still have plenty of tracking problems. You also learn where these guys are, its not like they have a POS in every system. And if your doing FW or some such in such a system, it is not so hard to deal with the drones with a proper fleet. These things are not cheap (fighters and fighter bombers. )

But they don't show up on kill boards :(

Oh also does the carrier need to be outside the force field to assist? I would assume so, clearly dropping on top of a POS is no trivial matter however. But if so that is not zero risk.


From a proper "skynet" fit they will much of the time track and kill small stuff fine - often able to alpha even AFs, etc. also fighters can be instantly recalled to an off grid capital (warp scrams don't stop them - and shouldn't IMO due to more complex reasons than I want to cover here) making killing them in a war of attrition usually unsuccessful.

While you can't have fighters out (normally) when the POS FF is up there are a variety of techniques that can be used around POSes to be moderately safe through to all but immune including sitting right on the control tower with the FF down and emergency online it if needed.

Some of them have a few POSes dotted around a region including multiple in a system so that they can move around so as to make it harder for someone to setup any kind of ambush, etc. or to predict where they might be and so that they aren't spending a lot of time resetting forcefields so as to be able to sit at a POS with the FF down.

PS: Balance != nerf into the ground people.


EDIT: Slightly less arbitrary implementation of what I suggested before regarding POS restrictions might be to let fighters be launched inside the POS FF range (when the FF is down) but not assigned within that range "due to electronic interfence of the nearby ##POS module##"
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-02-19 23:41:56 UTC
What if possible upcoming pos changes somehow mitigated this? That would be cool.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#33 - 2015-02-19 23:56:41 UTC
"Net Neutrality" which will unleash political regulation of the internet will bring about Skynet.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#34 - 2015-02-20 00:35:48 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I don't see how this is a problem, unless your name is either John or Sarah Connor..







Come with me if you want to live.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-02-20 00:37:07 UTC
Nah, not a problem. Just people not wanting to work even just a little, not to fall in.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)

Mildew Wolf
#36 - 2015-02-20 07:55:34 UTC
Skynetting is lame af imo
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2015-02-20 08:06:53 UTC
I wish people would name it something else. The Skynet I know and love was the GSF POS that attacked us without fail even after we destroyed the tower.
Jori McKie
African Atomic.
Train Wreck.
#38 - 2015-02-20 10:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
I could go full blown emo mode and call any "skynet" user cowards but hey it is EVE you "exploit" the **** out of anything legal.
Anyway why i bother to answer is skynet does not matter in the grand scheme of things but it cripples my smallscale playstyle to get good fights, so i'm vocal about it.

The solution is easy, just do not allow offgrid assigned fighters/bombers.

You can still assign fighters to ongrid ships with all bonus they have. This way you have a choice when you fit your carrier, go for high DPS, high tracking fighters and very less tank on your carrier or not.
The other option that assigned fighters lose all their bonus makes several interesting options not viable.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#39 - 2015-02-20 13:01:38 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
I could go full blown emo mode and call any "skynet" user cowards but hey it is EVE you "exploit" the **** out of anything legal.
Anyway why i bother to answer is skynet does not matter in the grand scheme of things but it cripples my smallscale playstyle to get good fights, so i'm vocal about it.

The solution is easy, just do not allow offgrid assigned fighters/bombers.

You can still assign fighters to ongrid ships with all bonus they have. This way you have a choice when you fit your carrier, go for high DPS, high tracking fighters and very less tank on your carrier or not.
The other option that assigned fighters lose all their bonus makes several interesting options not viable.


I'm not sure the mechanic's existence is crippling your smallscale good fight there. The fact that the other guys don't want to engage anywhere but on their home turf where they have the carrier set up is crippling it. They don't want a goodfight, they want to kill anyone coming into their gate.

I tend to agree that perhaps off-grid assigned fighters/FB shouldn't get their ship fitting bonuses, in the same way that offgrid fleet boosts should DIAF too. But the ability to assign fighters/FB off grid is a good one and isn't the solution here.

But this isn't some huge unbalancing effect - you can't use this offensively to attack another system in sov unless the defenders have already lost the POS war, and you can't use it while roaming. I think the home-team should have the home-field advantage here.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#40 - 2015-02-20 13:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Rroff should be hired by CCP! Smile
For the most balanced idea to nerf the skynetting.
Maybe can have it so you cant assign fighters when you are 5000 m off a force field?