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Dev blog: The Svipul Tactical Destroyer andProjectile Changes

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Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#281 - 2015-02-13 08:04:24 UTC
I would like to point at ambit rigs as part of projectile balance:

Optimal bonus is a more powerful bonus than falloff. Even on Tracking enhanchers their bonuses are on a 1:2 ratio.

When it comes to rigs however there is a disparity.

A T1 Locus Rig gives +15% optimal(better than a TE2) while a T2 Locus Rig gives +20% falloff(double the amount of TE2)
A T1 Ambit Rig gives +15% falloff(worse than a TE2) while a T2 Ambit Rig gives +20% falloff (same amount asTE2)

Increasing t1 ambit rigs to 20% and t2's to 25% would help in projectile rebalancing.
Tara'Quoya Rax
Atlantis Asteria
#282 - 2015-02-13 21:09:27 UTC
It would still require a falloff ship bonus to actually make it worthwhile committing those rig slots.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#283 - 2015-02-14 09:22:30 UTC
Deerin wrote:
I would like to point at ambit rigs as part of projectile balance:

Optimal bonus is a more powerful bonus than falloff. Even on Tracking enhanchers their bonuses are on a 1:2 ratio.

When it comes to rigs however there is a disparity.

A T1 Locus Rig gives +15% optimal(better than a TE2) while a T2 Locus Rig gives +20% falloff(double the amount of TE2)
A T1 Ambit Rig gives +15% falloff(worse than a TE2) while a T2 Ambit Rig gives +20% falloff (same amount asTE2)

Increasing t1 ambit rigs to 20% and t2's to 25% would help in projectile rebalancing.


rigs are pretty much due for their own expansion. they've messed up the game enormously and had barely any changes.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#284 - 2015-02-14 21:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Baki Yuku
Came expecting some real balancing to address the medium rail imbalance left disappointed medium arty is still garbage because not enough falloff.. medium beams still garbage because way to much PG need.. good balance good start for the new year if thats what we can expect for sov remap why even bother?
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#285 - 2015-02-18 11:29:29 UTC
I just don't understand the logic of this optimal bonus. Don't the modules themselves already have tradeoffs?

If an optimal bonus is needed to give player choices, doesn't that imply that the weapon systems are out of balance? Why a weird bonus instead of a module tweak?
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#286 - 2015-02-18 18:29:39 UTC
An incredible lack of work done with this ship.. The Svipul

Simple logic played key here.. no new bpo equipment piece , no new salvage requirement. the exact same for the confessor.. im willing to bet the exact same for the caldari and gallente versions when they come out as well.

so basically you spent how much time into creating t3 destroyers??

not impressed at all.

you guys really hate industry.. you really do.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#287 - 2015-02-19 11:40:05 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
An incredible lack of work done with this ship.. The Svipul

Simple logic played key here.. no new bpo equipment piece , no new salvage requirement. the exact same for the confessor.. im willing to bet the exact same for the caldari and gallente versions when they come out as well.

so basically you spent how much time into creating t3 destroyers??

not impressed at all.

you guys really hate industry.. you really do.



This is the way all T3 ships have always worked. Unlike T2, the components that go into them aren't racial.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#288 - 2015-02-19 12:08:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
An incredible lack of work done with this ship.. The Svipul

Simple logic played key here.. no new bpo equipment piece , no new salvage requirement. the exact same for the confessor.. im willing to bet the exact same for the caldari and gallente versions when they come out as well.

so basically you spent how much time into creating t3 destroyers??

not impressed at all.

you guys really hate industry.. you really do.



This is the way all T3 ships have always worked. Unlike T2, the components that go into them aren't racial.


But it is obviously SO UNFAIR that few people have earned HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF ISK when the Confessor was introduced.
And now we could not just copy that profit because... well... CCP was lazy and it was so easy to build the Svipuls that basically everyone copied it!!!

(note: this is the first item I am aware of that actually showed a price rebound that strong on day one after all the hysterical producers were done pushing their goods into the market)

Milla Goodpussy wrote:

so basically you spent how much time into creating t3 destroyers??


I bet the main time sink in creating new items is NOT the bill of materials. ;-)
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#289 - 2015-02-19 12:17:58 UTC
I believe the purpose of new ships is to offer interesting gameplay possibilities, not to make rich people richer.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#290 - 2015-02-19 12:46:05 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I believe the purpose of new ships is to offer interesting gameplay possibilities, not to make rich people richer

So none of those interesting possibilities are allowed to add to EVE's seriously lacking industry gameplay?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#291 - 2015-02-19 13:35:07 UTC
Adding new blueprints to craft isn't enriching the industry gameplay. EVE does not rely on devs adding something new on a regular basis to be fun. EVE releases are about giving the tools to player to create their own content.

Adding new blueprints and components for every racial T3 destroyer would only provide a temporary and debatable interest to industrialists. That's not what I call enriching the gameplay.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#292 - 2015-02-19 13:57:50 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Adding new blueprints to craft isn't enriching the industry gameplay.
Neither is anything else, sadly.

Altrue wrote:
EVE does not rely on devs adding something new on a regular basis to be fun.
That's fortunate.

Altrue wrote:
EVE releases are about giving the tools to player to create their own content.
And I'm waiting for CCP to give the tools to the industry player to create their own content, as a lot of the tools we used to have pre-Crius were removed or rendered inoperable. I would at least like to see replacements, although I'd much rather see the industry gameplay move forward rather than just returning back to where it was a year ago.

Altrue wrote:
Adding new blueprints and components for every racial T3 destroyer would only provide a temporary and debatable interest to industrialists. That's not what I call enriching the gameplay.
Me neither. But when you compare the enrichment of industrial gameplay that came with the introduction of T3 cruisers to the lack of industrial gameplay that came with the introduction of T3 destroyers, it does look like another missed opportunity.

Now, I'm not saying T3 destroyers needed to be the saviour of industry, but something has to be and I'd rather like it arrive sooner rather than later.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#293 - 2015-02-19 15:51:13 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Adding new blueprints to craft isn't enriching the industry gameplay. EVE does not rely on devs adding something new on a regular basis to be fun. EVE releases are about giving the tools to player to create their own content.

Adding new blueprints and components for every racial T3 destroyer would only provide a temporary and debatable interest to industrialists. That's not what I call enriching the gameplay.



rofl you brave folks make me laugh with your tunnel vision, just like the fozz nerf bear up there. if they provide more bpo's, items to build that provides us content, if they allowed more skills needing to be trained it separates us from the newbies and provides a newbie with a goal.. industry stinks right now cause of what greyscale did to it, and I doubt fozzie will do anything about it cause its pretty much obvious he hates industry.. they haven't even came up with what to do about replacing teams.. so now invention is broken, job cost is broken, and the entry level - mid point of industry training is broken.

go back to pew pew and stop trying to understand industrials cause that's all you shoot at..
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#294 - 2015-02-19 15:57:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
An incredible lack of work done with this ship.. The Svipul

Simple logic played key here.. no new bpo equipment piece , no new salvage requirement. the exact same for the confessor.. im willing to bet the exact same for the caldari and gallente versions when they come out as well.

so basically you spent how much time into creating t3 destroyers??

not impressed at all.

you guys really hate industry.. you really do.



This is the way all T3 ships have always worked. Unlike T2, the components that go into them aren't racial.



T2 production is broken right now dude, so.. here's your logic.. make T3 production easy ( as referenced in the agenda blog to increase its production) meanwhile make T2 production expensive and less profitable. btw moon goo isn't cheap, its a challenge, T3 no moon goo needed!.. oh and you don't need a command ship to boost off-grid as well, yep perfect thinking
you have some tunnel vision going on there dude.

I was fortunate to make a nice profit from building the svipul on day one, but yet I also was online and watching as everyone's jobs completed and began posting in jita and was saddened on how at ease it was.. you made it to where its a mad dash for a couple hours instead of days, weeks, months to accomplish.. guess you guys are hurting in retaining new bros after all.

hmph!
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#295 - 2015-02-19 16:09:06 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
go back to pew pew and stop trying to understand industrials

It's not like it's only possible to understand one part of the game.

I'm a real honest to goodness boat violencing pew pew PvPer first and foremost. But, like anyone who spends a long time flying without an SRP saftey net, you have to find a way to pay for your exotic dancer supply.

After 10 years playing a game, it appears I've had time to become terrible at everything it has to offer. So for me, new content or the tools to create it are very important.

I'll really enjoy flying the Svipul and all the other T3 destroyers, but I'd have liked to have really enjoyed building them too.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#296 - 2015-02-19 16:32:43 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
go back to pew pew and stop trying to understand industrials

It's not like it's only possible to understand one part of the game.

I'm a real honest to goodness boat violencing pew pew PvPer first and foremost. But, like anyone who spends a long time flying without an SRP saftey net, you have to find a way to pay for your exotic dancer supply.

After 10 years playing a game, it appears I've had time to become terrible at everything it has to offer. So for me, new content or the tools to create it are very important.

I'll really enjoy flying the Svipul and all the other T3 destroyers, but I'd have liked to have really enjoyed building them too.


as it stands right now.. fozzie has allowed the cycle to continue..

welp at fan fest.. here's the Caldari T3 destroyer coming in blah blah blah Fozzie/Rises expected release date ( they give terrible smiles at the camera)..

then I go.. welp its time to build another 250 self-assemblies to be ready for it, since that's the same thing i'll need.. plus I now have thousands in salvage parts, reaction gas so im ready for that.. no surprises around the corner at all cause he refuses to put more psssssssssssth in it..

it comes out..
I wait 51 mins for the invention..(expensive decryptor used for 100% success)..oh this is very difficult says yoda
out comes my bpc.. and it has that new car ship scent with it.
then I plug in how many I want to make.. wow this is sooooooo diffifult and challenging that even a 1 finger robot could do.

but I better build 1 and rush it to jita on day one to make a serious profit cause those "must haves" will be there and I can profit from it..

then the next day hits.. and welp im waiting for my other batches to finish and wow.. such a drop in price :(

all the new content (materials gathering + invention) is over within 1 hour time.. 19 hrs on waiting for a ship to cook, couple days waiting for more.. anyone still awake out there? yeah.. that's industry for ya
Circumstantial Evidence
#297 - 2015-02-19 23:16:38 UTC
Congrats Milla, you have won EVE! And wrote a nice production outline, which I don't have the energy to set up. But those who do it well, are extracting maximum value from the system as it was designed. Making it more complicated, such as requiring new types of parts requiring new resources, say, from the new WH systems you can't put POS's in - would only slow things down for a short time. And then you'd probably complain that you only had a few days of high profits, instead of a few hours.

This gets to the general problem all games have: there's no content the developers can spend weeks or months creating, that players can't consume in a much shorter amount of time.

I think the next big things for Industry will be wreck-able or destructible outposts, and the player-built stargates, which I imagine will require resources from every region, 5 or 10 times the stuff needed to build an outpost.

In order for the effort and costs to scale properly, I think the T3 destroyers had to be a simpler process than T3 cruisers. If there's ever a T3 battleship, we should expect some new complications :)
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#298 - 2015-02-20 18:03:03 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Congrats Milla, you have won EVE! And wrote a nice production outline, which I don't have the energy to set up. But those who do it well, are extracting maximum value from the system as it was designed. Making it more complicated, such as requiring new types of parts requiring new resources, say, from the new WH systems you can't put POS's in - would only slow things down for a short time. And then you'd probably complain that you only had a few days of high profits, instead of a few hours.

This gets to the general problem all games have: there's no content the developers can spend weeks or months creating, that players can't consume in a much shorter amount of time.

I think the next big things for Industry will be wreck-able or destructible outposts, and the player-built stargates, which I imagine will require resources from every region, 5 or 10 times the stuff needed to build an outpost.

In order for the effort and costs to scale properly, I think the T3 destroyers had to be a simpler process than T3 cruisers. If there's ever a T3 battleship, we should expect some new complications :)



lol.. you're comparing building an outpost to building a t3 destroyer? really? now im sure folks would rage about them saying "welp we need to move outpost construction down to industrial construction 1 cause errybody wants to build an outpost egg"

I win at eve when I decide to give a different game my money, that's how I win.. so be it.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#299 - 2015-02-22 10:47:12 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
as it stands right now.. fozzie has allowed the cycle to continue..

welp at fan fest.. here's the Caldari T3 destroyer coming in blah blah blah Fozzie/Rises expected release date ( they give terrible smiles at the camera)..

then I go.. welp its time to build another 250 self-assemblies to be ready for it, since that's the same thing i'll need.. plus I now have thousands in salvage parts, reaction gas so im ready for that.. no surprises around the corner at all cause he refuses to put more psssssssssssth in it..

it comes out..
I wait 51 mins for the invention..(expensive decryptor used for 100% success)..oh this is very difficult says yoda
out comes my bpc.. and it has that new car ship scent with it.
then I plug in how many I want to make.. wow this is sooooooo diffifult and challenging that even a 1 finger robot could do.

but I better build 1 and rush it to jita on day one to make a serious profit cause those "must haves" will be there and I can profit from it..

then the next day hits.. and welp im waiting for my other batches to finish and wow.. such a drop in price :(

all the new content (materials gathering + invention) is over within 1 hour time.. 19 hrs on waiting for a ship to cook, couple days waiting for more.. anyone still awake out there? yeah.. that's industry for ya

That's a decent amount of crying about not making as much of a profit as you would like. Is someone forcing you to build these or was that just your sense of entitlement talking?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#300 - 2015-02-22 22:58:42 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
as it stands right now.. fozzie has allowed the cycle to continue..

welp at fan fest.. here's the Caldari T3 destroyer coming in blah blah blah Fozzie/Rises expected release date ( they give terrible smiles at the camera)..

then I go.. welp its time to build another 250 self-assemblies to be ready for it, since that's the same thing i'll need.. plus I now have thousands in salvage parts, reaction gas so im ready for that.. no surprises around the corner at all cause he refuses to put more psssssssssssth in it..

it comes out..
I wait 51 mins for the invention..(expensive decryptor used for 100% success)..oh this is very difficult says yoda
out comes my bpc.. and it has that new car ship scent with it.
then I plug in how many I want to make.. wow this is sooooooo diffifult and challenging that even a 1 finger robot could do.

but I better build 1 and rush it to jita on day one to make a serious profit cause those "must haves" will be there and I can profit from it..

then the next day hits.. and welp im waiting for my other batches to finish and wow.. such a drop in price :(

all the new content (materials gathering + invention) is over within 1 hour time.. 19 hrs on waiting for a ship to cook, couple days waiting for more.. anyone still awake out there? yeah.. that's industry for ya

That's a decent amount of crying about not making as much of a profit as you would like. Is someone forcing you to build these or was that just your sense of entitlement talking?

Lucas, I think you missed the intent of the post or maybe it is me. To me it seems to be saying, these "new" builds are bringing nothing new to industry.
4 new ships for 4 different factions, all use the same materials to build what are supposed to be faction specific ships.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.