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Petition for the categorization of "Drifters" as Pirates by CONCORD

Author
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2015-02-18 22:23:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Keep talking about what we all don't know.


Better we talk than that we don't.

Speaking of which, I'd still like to hear more about what they do and do not shoot on sight.

We've got at least two cases of unprovoked attacks on SoE-designed vessels.

What else?
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#22 - 2015-02-18 22:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eran Mintor
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Keep talking about what we all don't know.


Better we talk than that we don't.

Speaking of which, I'd still like to hear more about what they do and do not shoot on sight.

We've got at least two cases of unprovoked attacks on SoE-designed vessels.

What else?


It's vital that any case of aggression vs. non-aggression be well documented by the pilot in question. Any of the reporting pilot's activities and distances from Drifters/Seekers and related structures need to be well noted. While I don't believe that standings or the ship used to have any noticeable pattern, people may want to report that just to give proof that it does or does not have an effect.

As for Anslo, I agree with Ms. Jenneth.

-Eran
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-02-19 11:14:30 UTC
SoE ships are commonly used for running through those sleeper caches we've been finding. Have the pilots in question been 'liberating' goods from these salvage sites?

Another possible cause could be if these pilots have run through sleeper sites in wormholes?
Annabelle Arzi
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-02-19 11:49:25 UTC
The interesting thing there is that we've made no contact nor seen any evidence of the Drifters in wormhole space. The Sleepers also appear to be acting as normally as they ever do.

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#25 - 2015-02-19 12:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
I have to disagree with this petition. Strongly. It makes absolutely no sense to claim them to be criminals when they haven't comitted any crimes; at least, it isn't like they have attacked our civilians or military forces (in fact, they seem to have only attacked capsuleers that were too curious). After seeing what they are capable of, do you really want them to respond with war?

I'm beggining to be very worried about the attitude of some Gallente towards these strangers. They appear out of nowhere, showing incredibly advanced technology, gathering information about their new neighbours (as any of us would do) and zealously guarding their structures. Yet your reaction is to declare them enemies of the Federation? You are foolish.

As a fellow capsuleer recently said (I can't remember who, sorry): "Yeah, let's shoot the super-advanced civilization with all-consuming firepower, it will be a good idea". Come on. I though Gallente were more oriented towards understanding between different people. I hope you don't represent the whole of the Gallente people, because that makes no sense. You might technically be our allies, but sometimes I have the impression some Gallente talk about freedom while not trying to understand other people, and in fact showing hatred against the different ones, themselves convinced about their own righteousness. Good thing I know not all Gallente are like that.

I warn you: we don't know yet who they are or why they are here. Maybe they are not interested on waging war against our empires, but that doesn't mean they won't defend themselves if threatened. And for me it makes a lot of sense: who wouldn't defend himself? On the other hand, they might start open attacks on us in the future, but since we don't know, better not to provoke them so we can avoid a misunderstanding, shall we?
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#26 - 2015-02-19 12:48:34 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
This is our home turf, not theirs.

And besides, the vast majority of capsuleers on this forum have stated quite clearly in past posts that they believe defense of your home is not a legitimate reason to attack someone. Roll
The problem is: those structures seem to have been there for a long time. Maybe even more time than we've been here. In fact, ancient Matari legends talk about vertical monoliths, which inspired the Naglfar-class Dreadnought design... which looks very similar to these Drifter structures.

So, this might have been their home turf before us. In which case... who is the most suited to call this cluster thir home?
Tarikla
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-02-19 13:15:13 UTC
Mr Askold,

You forget what the Federation value the most : Freedom. The Drifters denies our freedom, by attacking almost on sight, and worse, by pursuing offenders, destroying not only their ships but also their defensless pod. They are actively interdicting access to specifics area of space INSIDE the Federation, and inside all of the Main Empires.

This is a clear violation of our borders, and this is much worse than someone defending himself.

This is the typical comportment of a scout force, not engaging actively others but scouting areas, and eliminating any intruder who'd discover them. Realize that we have no way of following them, or tracking their movments, and for all we know there may be many more cloacked areas throughout New Eden that we don't know of.

They didn't tried to contact us, or any Empire, not even CONCORD. They sended the Circadians Seekers to scan us, discover our strenghts and weakness, and then they arrived, with weapons capable of destroying even some of the most advanced ships we have at our disposal. They ignored all attempt at communication, only responding by sheer firepower.

What is the next logical step ? We must react before it's too late, before they strike and leave a crippling blow to our defenses. As some of you said, many capsuleers are only money-grabbing fellows, and as such the only way to ensure that a united front will be going against the Drifters is to offer a financial retribution for their elimination.

Do not let history repeat itself again.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#28 - 2015-02-19 14:27:13 UTC
Tarikla wrote:

You forget what the Federation value the most : Freedom. The Drifters denies our freedom, by attacking almost on sight, and worse, by pursuing offenders, destroying not only their ships but also their defensless pod. They are actively interdicting access to specifics area of space INSIDE the Federation, and inside all of the Main Empires.

This is a clear violation of our borders, and this is much worse than someone defending himself.


You can substitute 'The Drifters' with 'Caldari State' and not lose any meaning or sense in the message, yet I don't think you'd come up with calling for Caldari do be sanctioned as 'criminals' that easily.

Mind you, I'm not trying to defend the Drifters here; I'm merely pointing out how absurd and pointless CONCORD and DED are.

As for your proposition, would it actually change anything in the wider scope of things? Besides making you sleep easier at night, after CONCORD cleary gives you a statement in their two-shade palette regarding whether they're the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' ?
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-02-19 14:28:39 UTC
Have these ships attacked anyone but capsuleers yet? Any civilians or Empire forces? If not then I wouldn't classify them as pirates. If they have been observing us for some time they probably view capsuleers as a threat given most pod bunnies aggressive tendancies. 'Shoot first, ask questions about the salvage' isn't a good plan here I think.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#30 - 2015-02-19 14:46:03 UTC
Tarikla wrote:
Well, I haven't seen new of them attacking our people (that is, civilians and non-capsuleer ships). For me, them attacking capsuleers isn't enough for them to be considered outlaws. After all, we come back, and too many of us are too trigger happy, so they deserve it. As an explanation for this my opinion, I'll say I've been living in Anoikis for a long time, and there, gathering information about others and attacking them if they show too much interest is common pratice among capsuleers, precisely for not being shot yourself in turn.

I am not against raising a full alert and stand ready to deliver a fast response in case they attack us. I am against assaulting them (and thus, declaring war on them) before they do, because we don't know if they want to do that in the first place. Continuing what I said to Ms. Kernher: let's say this was their home long ago. Imagine your people one day come back here and find your former home being now populated with a new civilization, whose most independent people start peeking around and even attacking you for apparently no reason. What would you do?

I know of the great war caused by Sansha Kuvakei's ideals. I wouldn't want it to happen again either. But you probably agree that while it is not wise not to do anything now, it isn't wise either to attack someone who hasn't attacked us in the assumption they will in the future. Especially when such someone has demonstrated its strengh.

Again, I'd say: yes, take action, but don't let that "action" be open war. Don't act without reason, out of fear of the unknown. Don't bring us all to another war that could have been avoided by putting as much effort as possible on trying to understand the different ones. Raise full alert levels, have your soldiers and pilots ready, just in case. But don't unleash them unless our people is attacked first. Yes, if they attack us first, people might die before we can respond; it is a cruel truth. But at least, if we try to avoid such attack first, no one would die. If we start a war against such a foe, we would probably lose and our people would die in much larger numbers.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#31 - 2015-02-19 16:21:54 UTC
Telling a capsuleer not to shoot at new things or people is like telling an infant not to shove things into their noses.
Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-02-19 22:00:00 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Telling a capsuleer not to shoot at new things or people is like telling an infant not to shove things into their noses.


This is why Dusters are superior...

Hell im trying to communicate with the damn things...
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2015-02-19 22:26:29 UTC
To be fair, an intrusion with combat vessels and deployment of structures without a permission being given is a territorial violation, if not an outright declaration of war.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2015-02-19 22:50:30 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
To be fair, an intrusion with combat vessels and deployment of structures without a permission being given is a territorial violation, if not an outright declaration of war.

We might not be quite clear on who actually deployed structures in whose territory.

... Of course, if you leave your house for too long, you maybe shouldn't be surprised if you come back and someone's moved in. For all we know, though, the Drifters think ten thousand years is just time enough for a nice a long walk.
Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-02-20 00:05:30 UTC
Tarikla wrote:
Mr Askold,

You forget what the Federation value the most : Freedom. The Drifters denies our freedom, by attacking almost on sight, and worse, by pursuing offenders, destroying not only their ships but also their defensless pod. They are actively interdicting access to specifics area of space INSIDE the Federation, and inside all of the Main Empires.

This is a clear violation of our borders, and this is much worse than someone defending himself.

This is the typical comportment of a scout force, not engaging actively others but scouting areas, and eliminating any intruder who'd discover them. Realize that we have no way of following them, or tracking their movments, and for all we know there may be many more cloacked areas throughout New Eden that we don't know of.

They didn't tried to contact us, or any Empire, not even CONCORD. They sended the Circadians Seekers to scan us, discover our strenghts and weakness, and then they arrived, with weapons capable of destroying even some of the most advanced ships we have at our disposal. They ignored all attempt at communication, only responding by sheer firepower.

What is the next logical step ? We must react before it's too late, before they strike and leave a crippling blow to our defenses. As some of you said, many capsuleers are only money-grabbing fellows, and as such the only way to ensure that a united front will be going against the Drifters is to offer a financial retribution for their elimination.

Do not let history repeat itself again.




Are you kidding me? How typically Gallente.

Ever think that maybe you're impinging on their freedom? Every attack of theirs has been reactionary if not retaliatory. People fire on them and get blown up. People get too close to their towers, they get blown up. Destroy one of their drones? Blown up. Do you see a pattern here yet?

If they didn't contact CONCORD, how is it that CONCORD has established a Corporation for them? Some kind of communication must have occured.

You say we must "react before it's too late." Why not act instead? Why not work on developing a dialogue before they have reason to wipe us out? And if they are an older race, how do you know that we're not the ones inading their space?

And don't you dare mention "a clear violation to our borders" where a Caldari can hear you ever again.

I realize how much the Drifters must scare you. But do you really think it's appropriate to start another war you can't win because you're frightened?






Seekoei
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2015-03-01 00:13:01 UTC
Reporting that a Drifter class battleship, engaged me today at an unoccupied planet in high security space. This incident had happened immediately after i had executed ship scans via probing technology close to an unidentified class of wormhole.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2015-03-01 00:16:25 UTC
Seekoei wrote:
Reporting that a Drifter class battleship, engaged me today at an unoccupied planet in high security space. This incident had happened immediately after i had executed ship scans via probing technology close to an unidentified class of wormhole.

Thaaaaat's interesting.

What class of ship, pilot?
Seekoei
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2015-03-01 00:19:05 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Seekoei wrote:
Reporting that a Drifter class battleship, engaged me today at an unoccupied planet in high security space. This incident had happened immediately after i had executed ship scans via probing technology close to an unidentified class of wormhole.

Thaaaaat's interesting.

What class of ship, pilot?


A purifier stealth bomber, I was simply scanning down an unmanned mobile tractor unit a few astronomical units away from the wormhole.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2015-03-01 00:58:12 UTC
Were you cloaked when the Drifter attacked?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-03-01 03:25:18 UTC
As far as I know, they don't attack Caldari vessels unless provoked, thus they shouldn't be set as pirates.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

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