Ships & Modules

Drakes used to do 400+ DPS out to 80+ km.

I have a problem of using we irrationally. I just finished a coding project and saw I had wrote we in all my comments vs. I.

In one patch, CCP reduced the range and "tracking" of a weapon that had never been seen as OP based on the way it was used when massed. The stats when used solo or small gang or in PVE were never seen as OP.

This may perhaps be seen as the biggest use of the "nerf hammer" by some because of those facts. As a result, ships that use heavy missiles for PVE, solo, or in small gangs are overly made to suffer.

Lesson learned? IDK Do not mass?

Interesting reponse.

I attempted only to answer the OP. Heavy missiles were overly adjusted in response to mass. It was not nearly the same as Dramiel of the past or Isthar of the present. No one ever complained about ANY solo heavy missile ship save Tengu. ( which could have been adjusted alone).

Right, because all sorts of platforms could project 400 DPS to 80+ km. they consistently exceeded all other long range weapon systems in application, range and damage. This was prior to the era of 500-700 DPS cruisers, railguns and sentry/Ishtar buff. In the context of the era prior to the nerf they were over powered.

I have to disagree. Heavy missiles in particular (though also lights to a degree) were seen as overpowered - they significantly outranged Rails on unbonused hulls and significantly outdamaged them too - they also applied damage very well on targets of all sizes... However it wasn't considered important enough to devote time to until they were used en masse.

I had a few ships set-up for long range application - and as I recall the Rail Thorax was outdamaged by the HM Caracal from about 25km... and the Thorax could hit to about 50km IIRC, while the Caracal could hit out to 120km... And that's with drones on the 'rax and none on the Cara...


As to the Kinetic Damage Bonus it is to give you a choice.
It is a significant damage increase if you choose to use it... On the other hand if you think you can get more damage by exploiting resist holes then you're quite welcome to switch damage type.
Consider that a laser damage bonus is limited to EM/Therm and Hybrid to Kin/Therm - the kin bonus isn't actually costing you anything.

And Ishtars do 700+dps at 90+ km, is there a point to your whine?

About 2-3 years and a 8-10(?) content, rebalancing and tiericide patches later we have the OP Ishtar, but this thread was started regarding why HM were nerfed 2-3 years ago, not about the current OP flavor of the year. The current meta of Eve is not applicable.

Yes, I see no reason why a HAC should do more damage than a tech I BC. Damn you can even skill into each and their primary weapon systems in the same amount of time. Guys I just jettisoned 1/2 my load of ammo, and the other half is all short range ammo, can we go back to that same spot so I can reconnect with my long range ammo and scoop it? Also, look at that incredible buffer on the HAC vs the poor thin BC, what, etc.

But then as others above have said, apples and oranges. This thread is about missiles.

Heavy missiles were op. If, if they are now "bad" the fix may come in the form of new stats on the tracking mods (TCs, TEs, and conversely TDs) or a sister set of modules to each of these that affect missile characteristics. This was hinted at now well over a year ago. But as was also observed itt. Missiles are very hard to balance. Not much plateau between ineffective and op. One attempt to change them on the test server made them ridiculously op. So they're probably stuck in a lengthy rebalance examination.

Anyway, either tracking mod effects have to come, or a radical reconceptualization of the missile formulas would be your answer.

As to kinetic bonuses on Caldari ships, they are an artifact of the racial damage type backstory. Amarr usually sport lasers. EM is the primary damage type for them. Minmatar sport projectiles. Look at the tech II ammo for them. Explosive is the racial damage type. Gallente use hybrids, as do Caldari, but more so Gallente. One of these two races had to get kinetic, and the other thermal for a racial damage type. Thermal fit more with blasters I guess and kinetic with rails.

For more examples of the racial damage types see drones and stealth bomber bonuses.

Why kinetic missiles get bonused on Caldari ships. Again, the narrow ridge with missiles either being op or ineffective. Caldari range bonuses allow incredible projection of damage. If that is paired with a blanket damage bonus like rof or %damage it is hard to keep from being op. You see blanket damage or rof bonuses on the new Minmatar missile ships, but then do you really see them flown much? Those range bonuses on the Caldari ships are massive, and massively more useful in some regards. So learn to live with the remaining kinetic bonuses. They probably aren't disappearing any time soon.

I fly Tengu for PvE and it's a crap ship, because it cannot hit small targets for any decent damage (even with target painters), it cannot hit cruisers for decent damage. In my opinion proteus or ishtar is way better for PvE.