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hi sec Gankers

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#181 - 2015-02-18 12:34:13 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lefty Lulu wrote:
I really don't know why CCP are messing about at. They should just get on with it and sack Concord and turn the game into one glorious free-for-all gank fest, after all, this is what CCP and the majority of the players want anyway.


Its not what we want. All we want is for the nerfs to stop.


would you prefer for the nerfs to stop and more people stop playing the game and eventually we have no game?

tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.


If EVE was going to die because I can blow up your ship in highsec it would have done so over a decade ago.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#182 - 2015-02-18 12:35:07 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?



Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes effort?

Like Ctrl+Click... F1 is effort anyways

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#183 - 2015-02-18 12:40:09 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?



Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes effort?

Like Ctrl+Click... F1 is effort anyways


And this is how we know you have no idea how ganks work.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#184 - 2015-02-18 12:45:00 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lefty Lulu wrote:
I really don't know why CCP are messing about at. They should just get on with it and sack Concord and turn the game into one glorious free-for-all gank fest, after all, this is what CCP and the majority of the players want anyway.


Its not what we want. All we want is for the nerfs to stop.


would you prefer for the nerfs to stop and more people stop playing the game and eventually we have no game?


Please demonstrate where any 'nerfs' have coincided with population growth (or even just stopping player decline).

In the decade where EVe was much harsher (before all these safety pop up and safeties and improved Concord) CCP couldn't help but tell people about how much it was growing. Now? not at all.

Basically, CCP may have made the Wal-Mart Mistake in good faith. They've made for an easier to understand "easy to play/hard to master" game when it was the CHAOS and DANGER of the game that kept it growing all those years.

Quote:

tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.


As it should be. A game where a person can make themselves 100% safe wouldn't be EVE anymore. CCP has made the game 'safer' based on the false idea that more carebears will stay. They don't, meanwhile they make it less attractive for the actual types of people (pve and pvp) who do play.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#185 - 2015-02-18 12:47:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?



Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes effort?

Like Ctrl+Click... F1 is effort anyways


And this is how we know you have no idea how ganks work.


Maybe in your mind gankers are still scanning out cargo several jumps ahead and gathering their pickup alt and setting up for the ship load and getting ready for the hauler to come.

But in today's eve an alt drops a catalyst from the hanger, ganker jumps in, warps to the kill location and just shoots.

Don't try and spice it up Dirt.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2015-02-18 12:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?


what do you define as effort, grinding to make the isk to buy a freighter, pvp'ing to get the contracts to fill the freighter then traveling dozens of jumps to fullfill the contracts, each contract with a 1bil collateral and risk of being ganked by 10mil catalysts on a gate, which there is no real way to prevent it.

or buying a ton of catalysts, having a few machariels sitting in a npc corp (protected by concord with 0 risk), camping on a gate then hitting orbit and f1 when a freighter comes through and have a hauler pick it all up? and yet you complain that its not profitable enough for you?

both activities require similar amounts of effort but 1 party comes out severely worse than the other

there is no risk in ganking because your going to die anyway and your ship cost is nothing compared to the reward for doing it and neither is the cost of security tags to amend your sec status.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2015-02-18 12:50:14 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Maybe in your mind gankers are still scanning out cargo several jumps ahead and gathering their pickup alt and setting up for the ship load and getting ready for the hauler to come.

But in today's eve an alt drops a catalyst from the hanger, ganker jumps in, warps to the kill location and just shoots.

Don't try and spice it up Dirt.


Miniluv are a profit making organisation. You dont make a profit by randomly ganking empty ships.
Dave stark
#188 - 2015-02-18 12:50:47 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?



Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes effort?

Like Ctrl+Click... F1 is effort anyways


And this is how we know you have no idea how ganks work.


Maybe in your mind gankers are still scanning out cargo several jumps ahead and gathering their pickup alt and setting up for the ship load and getting ready for the hauler to come.

But in today's eve an alt drops a catalyst from the hanger, ganker jumps in, warps to the kill location and just shoots.

Don't try and spice it up Dirt.


please continue, your clueless babble amuses me.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#189 - 2015-02-18 12:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Lan Wang wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.

Why do you think it should be possible to move 7-8bil without effort?


what do you define as effort, grinding to make the isk to buy a freighter, pvp'ing to get the contracts to fill the freighter then traveling dozens of jumps to fullfill the contracts, each contract with a 1bil collateral and risk of being ganked by 10mil catalysts on a gate, which there is no real way to prevent it.

or buying a ton of catalysts, having a few machariels sitting in a npc corp (protected by concord with 0 risk), camping on a gate then hitting orbit and f1 when a freighter comes through and have a hauler pick it all up? and yet you complain that its not profitable enough for you?

both activities require similar amounts of effort but 1 party comes out severely worse than the other

there is no risk in ganking because your going to die anyway and your ship cost is nothing compared to the reward for doing it and neither is the cost of security tags to amend your sec status.


Pop quiz.

How much does it cost the get your security status from -10 to +5 using tags?
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#190 - 2015-02-18 12:52:48 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
[quote=Ima Wreckyou]


Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes effort?

Like Ctrl+Click... F1 is effort anyways


And this is how we know you have no idea how ganks work.


Maybe in your mind gankers are still scanning out cargo several jumps ahead and gathering their pickup alt and setting up for the ship load and getting ready for the hauler to come.

But in today's eve an alt drops a catalyst from the hanger, ganker jumps in, warps to the kill location and just shoots.

Don't try and spice it up Dirt.


please continue, your clueless babble amuses me.



Oh please sire... teach us all of the complex and intricate ways of the playground bully.

You make it sound like there isn't guides for this kind of thing everywhere from TMC to Minerbumping.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#191 - 2015-02-18 12:53:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


what do you define as effort, grinding to make the isk to buy a freighter, pvp'ing to get the contracts to fill the freighter then traveling dozens of jumps to fullfill the contracts, each contract with a 1bil collateral and risk of being ganked by 10mil catalysts on a gate, which there is no real way to prevent it.

or buying a ton of catalysts, having a few machariels sitting in a npc corp (protected by concord with 0 risk), camping on a gate then hitting orbit and f1 when a freighter comes through and have a hauler pick it all up? and yet you complain that its not profitable enough for you?

both activities require similar amounts of effort but 1 party comes out severely worse than the other

there is no risk in ganking because your going to die anyway and your ship cost is nothing compared to the reward for doing it and neither is the cost of security tags to amend your sec status.


Pop quiz.

How much does it cost the get you security status from -10 to +5?



Who cares, in the previous thread you said gankers don't care about their sec status, therefore it is a moot discussion.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Dave stark
#192 - 2015-02-18 12:57:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You make it sound like there isn't guides for this kind of thing everywhere from TMC to Minerbumping.


perhaps if you'd read one, you might stop posting things so outrageously wrong. then again, probably not.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2015-02-18 13:04:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lefty Lulu wrote:
I really don't know why CCP are messing about at. They should just get on with it and sack Concord and turn the game into one glorious free-for-all gank fest, after all, this is what CCP and the majority of the players want anyway.


Its not what we want. All we want is for the nerfs to stop.


would you prefer for the nerfs to stop and more people stop playing the game and eventually we have no game?


Please demonstrate where any 'nerfs' have coincided with population growth (or even just stopping player decline).

In the decade where EVe was much harsher (before all these safety pop up and safeties and improved Concord) CCP couldn't help but tell people about how much it was growing. Now? not at all.

Basically, CCP may have made the Wal-Mart Mistake in good faith. They've made for an easier to understand "easy to play/hard to master" game when it was the CHAOS and DANGER of the game that kept it growing all those years.

Quote:

tell me the risks you have from suiciding 30 catalysts to kill 7-8bil worth of freighter? doesnt matter how well you tank anything if you want it dead then its dead.


As it should be. A game where a person can make themselves 100% safe wouldn't be EVE anymore. CCP has made the game 'safer' based on the false idea that more carebears will stay. They don't, meanwhile they make it less attractive for the actual types of people (pve and pvp) who do play.


do you think ccp just makes changes to game mechanics for the fun of things or on a whim? do they not listen to people about why they quit the game and how hard the game is for people to play or how much time they cant dedicate to play because so many reasons.

do they want to just cater for people who want to live in a high security space and shoot defenceless people when there is lowsec and nullsec which is very unpopulated compared to highsec, they probably have many factors on to which they base what they do on but im guessing the survey they ask when players quite plays a significant role in how they decide.

basically games evolve over time, you either have to adapt to the situation or you find another way around it. people need to stop living in some ego bubble where they base the reasons of what they do on some Eve philosophy or ethical grounds to support the core meaning of the game.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#194 - 2015-02-18 13:04:43 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Who cares, in the previous thread you said gankers don't care about their sec status, therefore it is a moot discussion.


If people use it as an argument then we are going to call them out on it. In this case its the argument about "just use tags".
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#195 - 2015-02-18 13:07:07 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You make it sound like there isn't guides for this kind of thing everywhere from TMC to Minerbumping.


perhaps if you'd read one, you might stop posting things so outrageously wrong. then again, probably not.


From TMC:

Quote:
"1)ADD CONCORD TO YOUR OVERVIEW. Seriously. Otherwise you're not going to notice Concord is already in the belt and get waxed immediately.

2)Make a hotkey for "engage drones". I like to use F9, then line up all of my mods I'm going to fire next to it, so I can mash, say, f4,f5,-f9. Drones are a key part of your dps and you need them engaged asap.

3)Do you have a high enough sec status to fly around in the system without getting gibbed by the faction police? Great! You should probably stock up the SMA with a few ships while you still can, and train a Mr. Happystandings (see below). If not, see the section below on life as a pirate.

4)A gank is 'lined up' with an alt. This alt futzes around the belt, and then sits next to a juicy-looking target. Your ganking ship then warps to your alt. If the miner is watching, they may notice you sitting next to them and get the **** out - if that happens, just line up a new gank. Even non-bots only pay attention every 10m or so.

5)Warp to your alt. Launch drones, then come to a complete stop (if you're in a blaster ship). Lock the target, then fire/tp/scram/web, then hit your engage drones hotkey (you made one, right?). Now, watch and wait. Once the ship blows up, use your alt (the one you lined up the gank with) to scoop the loot, then loot your own ship when CONCORD blows it up. Warp both your pod and your alt back to the closest station.

6)Immediately board a rookie ship or shuttle with your ganking alt, and undock. Don't touch anything after you do: wait for CONCORD to blow you up. You've just cleared CONCORD from the belt so the next guy can start his attack run.

7)**** up local something fierce."


Seeing as how 1 and 2 can be done and never done again, 3-6 are really the only parts of this guide.

Personally I think this is too extravagant as when I ganked I did it in Jita and only to the AFK inbounds on IV-4. But whatever, I forgot you must have a post-doctoral thesis on this very deep subject

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#196 - 2015-02-18 13:08:49 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


do you think ccp just makes changes to game mechanics for the fun of things or on a whim? do they not listen to people about why they quit the game and how hard the game is for people to play or how much time they cant dedicate to play because so many reasons.

do they want to just cater for people who want to live in a high security space and shoot defenceless people when there is lowsec and nullsec which is very unpopulated compared to highsec, they probably have many factors on to which they base what they do on but im guessing the survey they ask when players quite plays a significant role in how they decide.

basically games evolve over time, you either have to adapt to the situation or you find another way around it. people need to stop living in some ego bubble where they base the reasons of what they do on some Eve philosophy or ethical grounds to support the core meaning of the game.


EVE had year on year growth that no other MMO has ever managed to match while it had all of that danger. Over the last few years after a lot of buffs to safety it has not grown.

There is zero evidence to back up your argument.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#197 - 2015-02-18 13:09:16 UTC
snore...
what?
oh noes another of *those* threads again!

nerfs or bufs, eve will not die of that.
Ever heard of lo- and nullsec?
Where those big fights happen which eve is in the media for?
What hisec thingie got into the media?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#198 - 2015-02-18 13:11:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


do you think ccp just makes changes to game mechanics for the fun of things or on a whim? do they not listen to people about why they quit the game and how hard the game is for people to play or how much time they cant dedicate to play because so many reasons.

do they want to just cater for people who want to live in a high security space and shoot defenceless people when there is lowsec and nullsec which is very unpopulated compared to highsec, they probably have many factors on to which they base what they do on but im guessing the survey they ask when players quite plays a significant role in how they decide.

basically games evolve over time, you either have to adapt to the situation or you find another way around it. people need to stop living in some ego bubble where they base the reasons of what they do on some Eve philosophy or ethical grounds to support the core meaning of the game.


EVE had year on year growth that no other MMO has ever managed to match while it had all of that danger. Over the last few years after a lot of buffs to safety it has not grown.

There is zero evidence to back up your argument.



BS

Eve had year over year growth after the time Concord was buffed and highsec was made "safer" in your words... it started to stagnate and die again at the exact same time the first Hulkageddon and then again at the second Hulkageddon.

Now, personally I don't think it was a cause and effect, but to claim that these "nerfs" to ganking slowed growth is hilarious, much more likely the uptick in high-sec ganking of miners and freighters slowed the growth.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#199 - 2015-02-18 13:11:14 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You make it sound like there isn't guides for this kind of thing everywhere from TMC to Minerbumping.


perhaps if you'd read one, you might stop posting things so outrageously wrong. then again, probably not.


From TMC:

Quote:
"1)ADD CONCORD TO YOUR OVERVIEW. Seriously. Otherwise you're not going to notice Concord is already in the belt and get waxed immediately.

2)Make a hotkey for "engage drones". I like to use F9, then line up all of my mods I'm going to fire next to it, so I can mash, say, f4,f5,-f9. Drones are a key part of your dps and you need them engaged asap.

3)Do you have a high enough sec status to fly around in the system without getting gibbed by the faction police? Great! You should probably stock up the SMA with a few ships while you still can, and train a Mr. Happystandings (see below). If not, see the section below on life as a pirate.

4)A gank is 'lined up' with an alt. This alt futzes around the belt, and then sits next to a juicy-looking target. Your ganking ship then warps to your alt. If the miner is watching, they may notice you sitting next to them and get the **** out - if that happens, just line up a new gank. Even non-bots only pay attention every 10m or so.

5)Warp to your alt. Launch drones, then come to a complete stop (if you're in a blaster ship). Lock the target, then fire/tp/scram/web, then hit your engage drones hotkey (you made one, right?). Now, watch and wait. Once the ship blows up, use your alt (the one you lined up the gank with) to scoop the loot, then loot your own ship when CONCORD blows it up. Warp both your pod and your alt back to the closest station.

6)Immediately board a rookie ship or shuttle with your ganking alt, and undock. Don't touch anything after you do: wait for CONCORD to blow you up. You've just cleared CONCORD from the belt so the next guy can start his attack run.

7)**** up local something fierce."


Seeing as how 1 and 2 can be done and never done again, 3-6 are really the only parts of this guide.

Personally I think this is too extravagant as when I ganked I did it in Jita and only to the AFK inbounds on IV-4. But whatever, I forgot you must have a post-doctoral thesis on this very deep subject


So, thats more work than you fist said. Its also only valid for stationary afk untanked mining barges.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#200 - 2015-02-18 13:12:50 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


do you think ccp just makes changes to game mechanics for the fun of things or on a whim? do they not listen to people about why they quit the game and how hard the game is for people to play or how much time they cant dedicate to play because so many reasons.

do they want to just cater for people who want to live in a high security space and shoot defenceless people when there is lowsec and nullsec which is very unpopulated compared to highsec, they probably have many factors on to which they base what they do on but im guessing the survey they ask when players quite plays a significant role in how they decide.

basically games evolve over time, you either have to adapt to the situation or you find another way around it. people need to stop living in some ego bubble where they base the reasons of what they do on some Eve philosophy or ethical grounds to support the core meaning of the game.


EVE had year on year growth that no other MMO has ever managed to match while it had all of that danger. Over the last few years after a lot of buffs to safety it has not grown.

There is zero evidence to back up your argument.



BS

Eve had year over year growth after the time Concord was buffed and highsec was made "safer" in your words... it started to stagnate and die again at the exact same time the first Hulkageddon and then again at the second Hulkageddon.

Now, personally I don't think it was a cause and effect, but to claim that these "nerfs" to ganking slowed growth is hilarious, much more likely the uptick in high-sec ganking of miners and freighters slowed the growth.


There is far more evidence to my bad argument than the other.

Context, try using it.