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Minmatar Projectile Weapons

Author
Glenda en Welle
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-02-17 15:24:51 UTC
So I finally got done training my t2 Autocannons for my Machariel and I was so excited to bring on the dps and melt some ships. But the part of space I'm in seems to get mostly Blood Raiders and Sansha which are all weak to EM damage. I throw on my 1200 dps hail ammo and start mowing into them only to see i do less damage with t2 guns and t2 ammo >_> is this some how by design that my t1 ammo is actually better than t2 sometimes because that really really sucks. Or am i just a moron missing something important ( it does happen I'm not infalable)
erg cz
ErgoDron
#2 - 2015-02-17 15:27:19 UTC
Glenda en Welle
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-02-17 15:35:32 UTC
Maybe if my 4million sp in gunnery switched places with my 1.5 million sp in drones that would be a good idea :/ till then I'm more worried about whether the game really made t1 ammo better than t2 ammo in this situation
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-02-17 15:36:57 UTC
Load EMP. T2 ammo is specialized and not always suitable for every situation. Your T2 guns will still do 2-10% more DPS due to the T2 spec skill.

Or try running missions against Angels.
Glenda en Welle
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-02-17 15:41:54 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Load EMP. T2 ammo is specialized and not always suitable for every situation. Your T2 guns will still do 2-10% more DPS due to the T2 spec skill.

Or try running missions against Angels.


Thanks so its just what I thought that t2 ammo is more expensive and better just not always better. I'll admit personally I feel like upgrading ammo should upgrade damage but I guess this is one of those situations where common sense goes out the window thanks
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-02-17 17:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Well Barrage is great for mid range PVP and great for PVE against things that are weak to explosive damage. Hail is perfect for shooting at a large target up close.

T2 ammo types have roles, just like T2 ships. T1 ammo still has its place. It tracks better and in the case of projectiles allows for damage type selection. There is a lot more to ammo than how much damage it deals. Range and tracking count for just as much, sometimes even more than raw damage. This is why Barrage, Null, and Scorch are so popular.
BigWolfUK
Sons-of-Liberty
#7 - 2015-02-17 17:40:53 UTC
And tbf, in 90% of PvE situations, T1 ammo is more than enough, and extra isk spent on faction/t2 is not worth it
But those T2 guns + T1 ammo will still do more than T1 guns + T1 ammo, so the skill training is not wasted by any means
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#8 - 2015-02-17 20:25:26 UTC
Glenda en Welle wrote:
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Load EMP. T2 ammo is specialized and not always suitable for every situation. Your T2 guns will still do 2-10% more DPS due to the T2 spec skill.

Or try running missions against Angels.


Thanks so its just what I thought that t2 ammo is more expensive and better just not always better. I'll admit personally I feel like upgrading ammo should upgrade damage but I guess this is one of those situations where common sense goes out the window thanks



T2 ammo has its trade offs higher dps but you can't select what dmg type you deal along with worste tracking/range most of the time.

also you would be doing more dmg with the t2 ammo if you weren't hitting a 80-90% resist on those ships where there em resist is 20-30%
Orlacc
#9 - 2015-02-17 20:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Orlacc
Large Autocannon Specialization trained up? Kind of mandatory with T2. That being said, the only T2 I use on my Mach is Barrage.
Faction rat specific otherwise.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-02-17 23:03:39 UTC
just use EMP L

wouldn't bother with faction ammo on a mach either it chews through it too fast.
Glenda en Welle
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-02-18 16:13:38 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Large Autocannon Specialization trained up? Kind of mandatory with T2. That being said, the only T2 I use on my Mach is Barrage.
Faction rat specific otherwise.

Of course I do I wouldn't fly around in something I'm not skilled up in :D
servalaan
#12 - 2015-02-18 22:26:04 UTC
Mach usually relies somewhat on a speed tank, so invariably it ismoving pretty quick.
Hail has 25% reduced falloff, 50% reduced optimal range and 30% reduced tracking speed, which means you 'more or less' have to be sat on top of the ship you want to shoot and have it (and you) moving slowly enough for your guns to track it, only then will you begin to apply that '1200' dps.

If pinocchio told you his nose was about to grow, what would happen?

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-02-19 07:03:03 UTC
both hail and barrage produced kin and exp damages and zero therm and em, that's the only problem.

emp and plasma would be your primary choice agains blood raiders and sansha.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Ambusher Ituin
Roughneck Raiders
#14 - 2015-02-20 20:41:39 UTC
A corp mate had similar problems. All were solved by switching to Republic Fleet EMP. It does more damage than T2 ammo against NPCs with low EM defenses and it's cheaper ( … or less expensive Smile)

Don't panic now … there'll be plenty of time to do that later.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-21 01:40:33 UTC
pretty sure faction ammo is almost 5x as expensive as T2
Ambusher Ituin
Roughneck Raiders
#16 - 2015-02-21 02:04:02 UTC
Sure. RF EMP l is 2x Quake and 5X Tremor.

Corp mate makes his own EMP L and upgrades it at the LP Store. When factoring in travel time to a main trade hub to get a decent price, he figures he's saving money.

YMMV

Don't panic now … there'll be plenty of time to do that later.

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#17 - 2015-02-21 02:48:01 UTC
If you use lasers you don't even have to build anything all you have to do is keep looting the missions and you will easily get enough ammo to turn into faction to sustain you....then again you have a Mach not a paladin lol.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-02-21 03:32:23 UTC
Ambusher Ituin wrote:
Sure. RF EMP l is 2x Quake and 5X Tremor.

Corp mate makes his own EMP L and upgrades it at the LP Store. When factoring in travel time to a main trade hub to get a decent price, he figures he's saving money.

YMMV


Then you're paying out LP for very suboptimal item payouts. So in fact he's losing money.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2015-02-21 04:54:55 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
just use EMP L

wouldn't bother with faction ammo on a mach either it chews through it too fast.


When I ran missions that was eventually my answer. Unless I refit arties; I kept a few rounds around to blitz Scarlet and one other mission iirc.
Sturmwolke
#20 - 2015-02-21 10:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
If you're a missioning newbie, always do ballpark estimation of the EFFECTIVE damage done vs NPC you're shooting.
Taking paper dps literally is a very common mistake that players make. Paper dps does not account several factors like target resists, hit quality (which depends on speed, sig, distance, weapon tracking) and etc.

There are several data dumps out there with details of the NPC ships. Use it.
e.g. http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php

From there, you can either manually run simple calculation on dmg done.
Alternatively, if you run EFT/Pyfa, just build a dummy config with 1 local rep and similar resists profile (proper ratio is more important than exact numbers) to your target NPC and test the appropiate projectile/laser/hybrid/missile ammo profile on its defence rating to get the ballpark effectiveness.
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