EVE General Discussion

CCP has made their decision on this tactic and we are expected to accept it. I'm down with that.

Now, for those interested, here's how to make some money from it.

Freighter alts are selling for pennies on the dollar right now. Buy low sell high is the mantra, right? So go buy five or six while they're dirt cheap and sit on them until CCP comes to their senses and makes transporting stuff viable again. Six months should do it. Not a bad length of time to more than double your investment.

Here's why it will work. CCP has a long history of making mechanics decisions based on their little bubble of 'players play like reasonable human beings' and then find they were completely wrong. This will happen here. Like so many other working as intended mechanics, this will become so abused and common that it will drastically upset the entire balance of the game. When that happens, CCP will (of course) knee jerk in the other direction making it desirable to run the new impossible-to-gank freighters again.

Freighter characters will then become a sellers market in which the smart guys sitting on them will be able to sell high. Don't be one of the losers crying six months from now and wishing you had listened to me. Just listen to me and become space rich.

Mr Epeen

Take away gank and add care, do you feel the same way?

EDIT: You can revserse the above statement so we talk about carebears instead of gankbars, if you go through the majority of Eve threads you will find a multitude of contempt thrown at what is defined as carebears which sours the debate continuously, we refer to it as the church of the HTFU for fun.

Without any doubt hisec is safer than null, I for one will never say hisec is safer than null because I do not believe that, my friend may be over-stating it, but that was the figure he came out to me 300m per hour. My friend also operates in the more favourable TZ's as he plays odd hours so gets more freedom from the more competent enemy which is BL. Often risk is dependent on your circumstances, and Jenn a'Side is late EU and US TZ which has more action generally across Eve. I did define the area as heavily protected which means what it says on the label.

I don't go to the same level of expertise as Jenn a'Side in Osmon, but if I really try I can get to about 70m per hour, but still 90m per hour against 300m per hour with increased risk is certainly not to be sniffed at.

No, because it's still a baseless pejorative. You have yet to demonstrate, objectively, what makes him a 'carebear' and if you feel the need to call people names, then that's your problem, not the person you're calling names. It's one thing to make an objective assessment of someone - if someone tells me the earth is flat, I can objectively call them a liar, provided they are demonstrably lying. Maybe they're just misinformed, in which case I can say, "you're wrong and you've probably been misled by a liar."

If you're sitting there and trying to think of names to call people just for the sake of calling them names, or just to satisfy some sense of anger you have at them, then you serve your own position no justice, regardless of how right or wrong you are. No one has any need to respond to such petty behaviour with anything other than derision and mockery, and you would deserve it.

It does work both ways. But in order for your point to remain valid you would have to argue that hi-sec war losses compare to null-sec war losses. I don't have graphs for this, but given how literally fleets of sub caps are thrown away just to try and kill supers makes me think the numbers wouldn't even be close.

EDIT: Though thinking about, I haven't accounted for people like RvB that literally throw away ships just for the sheer hell of it. So it is entirely possible you may be right. It'd still like to see the numbers though.



Maybe. What we'd need is yearly averages with tracking for when "declared" (ie Forum post we are coming for your space) wars occurred.



Actually I REALLY REALLY WOULD. See I love data. I'd love it if CCP gave us some sort of API to pull those kinda numbers on a regular basis. Cuse then I could see how things have changed over different time periods on. (Like ganking!) That aside, that info is 4 years old. So not relevant in today's discussion.

I actually disagree with this. While CCP has changed game mechanics over time, once they make a choice, they usually always stick to their guns (rightly or wrongly).

Bumping is still a thing.
Scamming is still a thing.
Globbing will likely still be a thing until Eve dies.

LOL! Stick to their guns

Nano HACs
Ghost training
Training skills
And at least a dozen more I can name off the top of my head,



Mr Epeen

Yeah I would want to disect anything that claimed Low sec had more pvp kills than that much killing. However FW might have given a nice boost to that.

The problem with graphs without context is most of the deaths in Nullsec are people throwing their ships in harms way on purpose to try and violence someone elses ship. I would wager everything I have in eve that there is more non-consensual pvp in highsec than there is in Null.

I contend that if you are looking to not get killed, it is much easier to not get killed in null sec than it is in high sec. By the same token if you are looking to get killed, it is easier to get killed in null than it is in high.

Either way, WH space per capita is probably the single most dangerous class of space, and that with the most repercussions because being poded might be an absolute one way trip, where in all other parts of space you wake up somewhere with the change of rejoining the fight.

Either way, you can't prove Highsec is safe, I can't prove it is dangerous. But I can prove that earnings potential in Null and WH is higher than High, and it has been proven from many people in many threads. Highsec caps at 160mil/hr with Incursions with high end 5bil fit vindis, the fitting requirements for which are higher than a Sentry Thanny. Null sec has the potential of billions in luck, or 160mil/hr running upgraded systems. WH's are just sick with blue loot.


EDIT: Going back and looking at the original graphs it is comical that hate towards carebears even exists in Highsec. With 1/10th the population Null sec has just as much carebaring npc kills as all of highsec, according to your graph. So carebear density appears to be highest in Nullsec, by a large large per capita margin.

Pretty much. I don't think the reaction is panic. Though it's rather comical how the people who maintain the "game" think that every player is here to play "this game" when their real game is preventing the playing of the game. At that point, it's not even about space ships.


A general rule I would follow if this game development were my task would be "If the players can take any mechanic to the max of getting just one result, they can and will and they will do it to death".

The bumping thing is not a problem in itself. I recall a time in the past where bumping people in highsec would have been looked down on. This brings me once more to the point that lowsec and nullsec is so bad even the "grief players" don't want to go there. The problem is not "grrrr highsec" the problem is that highsec still matters. But if "they" got their wish and got their nerfs or remove Concord or whatever, the choice will be to get stomped or unsub.

One thing will have to be fixed before the other. When people blindly calling for the fixing of the other refuse to address the root problem they will at least be unhappy or at worst harm themselves more.

Yeah, God forbid that people actually have to play the game.

AFK all the way, that's the better idea.

I don't recall CCP having strong opinions about any of those things or that they had to make as many statements as they have on the things I mentioned vs your list.