EVE General Discussion

A friend of mine in Razor being clever and also selling escalations is averaging out at ISK 300m per hour in protected nullsec, can't see anyway to get near that in hisec. He may be over-stating it a bit, but that is the reality what smart people can do in highly protected null sec space.

Recent figures show that with the lack of wars with no one shooting anyone in any meaningful way while waiting for the sov changes people are spending more and more time in protected null sec space, if hisec was so much better why are they moving to null sec for ISK generation.

And I always find it so amusing seeing gankbears cry about the need to nerf hisec, cry more please!

EDIT: Please see this link

Because a game's database determines the game mechanics of an object?

How true. Amazing that people would want to try and break down labels and being defined as confined to one type of play.




You've spent literally this entire thread telling "carebears" that they have no one to blame for their destruction but themselves. But you here you aren't willing to stand up to the same scrutiny. "Oh its CCP's fault that we find null sec space unstable, unreliable, and unsafe." Right.




Anything in null is light years better than hi-sec. You know why? No one in high sec is going to pay someone else to "rent" hi-sec space (even if they could). And yet so many alliances over the history of Eve have found a way to rent out space that they own. So given that renters only really get the crap space that the big boys don't want, and they have to pay for it, it would stand to reason that their incomes would have to exceed their hi sec possibilities by a large amount to be worth all of that. OR no one would bother. The fact that people bother on a daily basis stands in stark contrast to your "theory".




OR, You can't be bothered to hunt for your targets. I get it, I've been deer hunting before. Sitting in stand all day waiting for prey to come by is really really boring. Why put in all the time and effort when there are literally thousands of people to chose from to shoot all day every day?


I find it hilarious that pro-gankers spend all day every day making arguments that they aren't willing to live under themselves. At the end of the day pro-gankers are no different than carebears. Both PLAYERS are trying to protect their most enjoyed form of gameplay. Its human fricking nature to argue for your interests or to try and get a better hand over someone else. The fact that a majority of you have "Vote Sabriz Adoude!" in your sigs is telling. Pro-gankers have spent this entire thread telling people that asking for changes to make the game better for them is bad, while on the back hand doing exactly the same thing and having the nerve to tell everyone else they are nothing but hypocrites!

No, people have been pointing out that the changes you are asking for are self-serving and do nothing to make the game better. I don't recall anyone here seriously asking for changes to the game to make hyperdunking or ganking easier. Only people rightly pointing out the number of changes that have been made to increase highsec safety over the years and questioning if we need yet another as you have proposed.

Even Sabriz isn't arguing for changes to "buff" ganking. While he clearly is philosophically for more highsec conflict, nowhere in his platform that I see is he arguing for any changes to game mechanics that will benefit the "ganking playstyle".

You on the other hand are asking for changes to game mechanics that directly benefit you with no additional effort on your part. You are asking to change the rules of the game in your favour, for no greater reason other than you want it to be that way.

Granted this thread has spiraled out of control, I recall no post here asking for that. Could you link those posts?

Sticking to your religion as usual. You make me hope Eve gets super-carebeared up just so I know that at least you will be unhappy.
You should know by now that being this way comes back at you. At the risk of sounding like an old hippie, that much negativity will bring all kinds of living hell. Karma and all that.

My dear Sir, thank you for your clarification, I have not gone into this thread deeply as I found posts by Kaarous Aldurald and Jenn a'Side which are full of hot air, the religion of HTFU and verbal self pleasuring aggrandisement that sets my teeth truly on edge, therefore I only reviewed it at a very superficial level, please forgive me. I do however stand by my assertion that these people have called for changes in other threads that would benefit ganking.

For my own part today I helped secure the safety of an Ark and a Charon and am enjoying the challenge that this new style of attacks bring to what is normally a quiet TZ. If people in hisec want to have fun there is no better way then counter bumping and jamming people doing this.

The mechanics around this are now resulting in people using the same method to take down off-line towers which I agree are a stain on the heavenly beauty of Eve, I do wonder what CCP thinks of this impact on targets that previously required a war dec, that being said I certainly find it very clever and a wonderful example of this sandbox.

I also take the opportunity to salute the extreme bumping skills of the player who has been the most prolific in the art of Hyperdunking.

As I've said before, I do't know why sompe people need to lie aboue a video game .

The risk/reward balance issue aren't made up, they are easily observable. I observe it myself all the time.

My mission toon (this character actually) sits in Osmon most of the time, same region as Jita, flys a Rattlesnake or Machariel depending on mission (except special missions like recon, have a ceptor for those). I blitz the right missions and never bomb my standings. After an hour I dock up, open the SOE LP store, select the item or items i want to sell and sell them. No travel time because Im in the same region as jita and people put up buy orders in osmon and remotely in Jita for stuff i sell in Osmon. Doing it casually is 90 to 100 mil per hour (no travel time to market, less than 1 minute to convert LP into itmes like sister's proves or probe launchers or virtue implants).

I've used that exact same ship type (machariel) on another character in all types of SOV null. Guyristas Space (tribute), Angel space (omist, Tenerifis, insmother), Blood space (Querious, Delve), Serpentis space (Fountain), Sansha space (Catch), even Drones (Etherium Reach).

Thart mach never made more than 90 mil per hour (30 mil per tick) unless their was a commander spawn involved, which was rare. The escalations are ok, but DEd plexes are hit or miss random number generator affairs and while you are doing them you aren't doing anomalies for 30 mil per tick (opportunity costs).

TL;DR, the same suub cap that can generate 90-100 mil per hour in HIGH SEC can do about the same but not much more in Null no matter how much you pimp it. Mainly because missions can be blitzed, anoms cannot. That's why this change led to an increase in the high sec population and longer incursion fleet waits.

And you can test it all for yourselves. however, doing so requires actual need to know the truth of a situation, and that need is lacking in high sec forum posters, probably because you all already know the truth...

And? The changes being asked for in this thread ARE self-serving for certain people. In fact, just about ANY change asked for is self-serving to a specific class of people. Whether the changes being asked for make the game better or not depends entirely on who you ask.




I disagree.



Again, And? Look in F&I. How many features being requested there require players to do any additional effort?

I know you don't because the actual truth doesn't matter. The chance of a player dying to another player is lower in high sec, period. Have a graph courtesy of DracVlad (see the 'risk' graph).



That carrier takes a LOT longer to train for than that vindicator. and the fact that a ship that is 5 TIMES the cost of a fit capital ship can fly safely in high sec proves that high sec is safer (not that we need any more proof).

Their is a psychological need (based around prejudice) to believe to 'people I don't like' somehow have it 'better' than 'I' do. This is actually a core cause of oppression of different groups of people in real life. it's a human habit to believe that way, but it's still wrong. People who believe that null is safer than high despite actual testable, observable empirical evidence to the contrary are responding to emotion (hatred) not logic.



1st of all, who the hell is a gank bear? Everyone knows I'm a PVE fanatic, I only pve in null to support the alliance Im in (as a way of paying my dues for access to null space) and i've never ganked anyone in high sec, I don't find the idea of ganking to be enjoyable personally. The fact that you have to imagine that everyone who disagrees with you is a ganker proves what I said about you above.

Who I am is a EVE player who has experienced (and personally tested) the imblance I'm talking about. While it's cool to be able to set up a mission farm (with 5 instances of Enemies abound 4/5 in a couple systems close together that provides a nice daily income for 6 days), the fact of being able to do that in safety is generally bad.

Null doesn't need buffing, nor does low (though faction warfare low could use a change and l5 mission blitzxing should be nailed) and wormholes are the ONLY space in EVE that works right. But high sec isk making at the top end (mission farming, SOe/thukker and mining corp LP stores, High sec incursions) needs a serious nerfing (middle and low end isk making in high sec itself is fine, we're talking about what pros can squeeze out).