EVE General Discussion

Well given that CODE ganks semi indiscriminately that would not be the case. This is especially true given the pro gankers arguments of

If you die it was your fault
If you die it was because you did something wrong
And doing something wrong/ being bad at the game isn't a valid playstyle.

Therefore, in order for you not to be playing bad/invalidly an escort is required.

Given that codes does kill completely empty ships then the cargo amount is irrelevant.



I agree with this. The problem is that compared to industrails or transport ships that the freighter's costs in no way reflects the actual value of the ship. Put another way, you are easily going to recoup the investment from buying a Navy scorp in a short amount of time, where an investment in a freighter means that you will likely quit the game before you ever see a good ROI.



The ship is worth a billion isk because of its immense build cost, not because of its capabilities.

.... I don't kid.



Never heard of bribes? Info aint free and it usually aint cheap either.

Yeah, it does. It's a capital ship, and it has exponentially better abilities than a regular hauler.

Or have you not figured out yet that cost and abilities don't scale linearly? You know, a basic tenet of EVE's game balance?





Yes, you did. You said that you would quit the game before earning it back.

And if that's true, you're doing it hilariously wrong.

And, you know, in the game's database.

Except that given the context of this thread and everything argued by pro-gankers that they are indeed synonymous with: "They deserved it because they didn't try"



Neither do I.



Maybe, but given that freighters tend to fill very specific roles that no other ship can fill, it really is besides the point how many people buy them every day.




Given that its roughly about 1mil per jump (I haven't looked at prices today of Red Frog) I don't see how your numbers would make sense. Your estimates don't seem to be accounting for the fact that roughly half the jumps a freighter makes are not making them money since half of them are just getting to or returning to a point back to pick up more contracts. So to put this in to perspective, what you'd need to do is figure about roughly how long it takes a freighter to warp from one gate to another (without webbers). From there, figure that you'd need roughly 1000 jumps just to break even and then figure out how many hours it takes to do a thousand jumps based on the previous data. Then take that number and double it to account for time to or from pickup points.

I don't agree with this decision at all. If it looks like an exploit and sounds like an exploit, it's an exploit.

Hi sec ganks are supposed to have a single countdown before the PO-PO show up and if they aren't successful by then, they fail. This bump-lather-rinse-repeat nonsense is bad gameplay, requires multiple acts of cheese, is griefing by definition, and shouldn't be countenanced.

And I'm all for suicide ganking, having enjoyed it a couple of times and been a good-sport victim a couple of times.

I suspect it's been permitted because distinguishing it from a regular gank might take a modicum of :effort:.

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread reopened.

Then I'm sure you'll be fully in favor of the removal of dec dodging.

It's literally sitting there waiting for CONCORD to kill you. It's anything but evasion.

Seeing that it's "the usual crowd" defending hyperdunking, that will pretty much guide my opinion of it as a new form of grief play.

Funny really how "creative" things get in highsec. Was not always like this, but I'm not going to think of the possibility that the player base is degenerate(ing). I have seen a lot of evidence to the contrary.

But at the same time I see Gurista faction ships and T3 ships farming highsec anoms (You read that right: highsec) and the hue and cry would be "CAREBEARS!!!!! NERF HIGHSEC!!! HURR DURR! "

But then, the griefing is also pretty darn creating after a string of what are called "nerfs".

So what gives?

I think that nullsec and lowsec have become so crappy that even the PVPers and "pirates" (using that term loosely here) won't, or cannot, go there any more.

Meaning that whereby highsec was mostly noobs and some people who lacked the time for (what was once considered) end game of going to null and occasionally some shenanigans, we now have TWO types of players (not one, 2) "bottled up" in highsec for reasons that have nothing to do with carebears, griefers, or PVe.

Looks like predator and prey have something in common.

Oh I'm sure the buttmad patrol will blame it all on highsec and "people won't leave it!" as if feeding ships to gate camps is supposed to be a play style or something somebody wants to do.

So we can poke Mr. Carebear for 'not wanting risk' but highsec PVP is simple controlled risk.

I've watched a progression since I started playing in the middle of 2006, and frankly this hyperdunking is just another chapter where the real issue is not being addressed while other mechanics have more and more players bottled up in highsec. Sure "HURF BLURF!!! JOIN AN ALLIANCE!!!1!!!". Ok, and what are they doing out there? Farming anoms. But that's just like highsec. Highsec has no bubbles. You can be in a wardeccing highsec alliance and travel freely looking for targets, which you cannot do in null or even in low in many case. Do you get a BLOPS drop for no reason in highsec? OK OK, nullsec has a reason for BLOPS drop... you are getting in the way of..... of.... their FARMING.

What a buzzkill. I want to go to nullsec to.... farm? But I can do that in highsec without having to take a multitude of times longer to travel to where I need to go because bubbles, dictors, D-Scan immune recons, inties on the wrong end of the bargain, and instalokis.
Oh and someone AFK in local because the play style of preventing the playing of the game is playing the game I'm told, meaning that the best way to counter it is to.... not play the game? Or go to highsec.

The problem is not more carebearing the problem is low and null becoming unbearable even for PVPers. Best evidence? What do you find way out there past the gank pipelines and intel channels? You find people farming and grinding away. Just like highsec.

Unless you are a trespasser. But they'll clean that up pretty quick and you hardly even get a target.
From a PVe point of view, why go through the trouble of low and null to do PVe? But from the PVP point of view, why go through the trouble to possibly get the jump on some mining ship when you can leisurely travel around highsec and get the jump on some mining ship?

But when too many jumps happen and CCP changes stuff, suddenly all the rage at CCP when we don't wonder about the environment and all of the factors that created this situation in the first place. Would you rather gank a freighter in highsec or nullsec? Would you rather go hunting in highsec or nullsec? Sure sure there's no Concord "out there" but you are going to lose your ship anyway. So highsec ganking is just a different path to the same result: you are going to pounce on some hapless player who did something wrong and then die in a fire. Same results for highsec and null, just different actors.

BFD.

See what I'm getting at here: PVe outside of highsec is a huge pain in the ass. But then, so if PVP. So if I can sneak out to null (where they are farming, just like in highsec) and go hunting, I still have to rely on the prey screwing up. But there's still plenty of screwing up in highsec.

So the HTFU hurr durr crowd is no different from the highsec bear - both groups have chosen the path of least resistance.

And I cannot blame them for the reasons I already cited. But the people on the PVP sides of things are not innocent. If we are to be buttmad over "nerfs to ganking" in highsec, we are wasting our energy for we all need to be buttmad over so many people being bottled up in highsec for it to even be needed and/or matter in the first place. But then, looking at RL politics, people blaming the wrong stuff is not really a new thing.

Sad too. The lore in this game is getting really good, but what we see lately and from the "13 points" thread that is now closed because the same troll brigade showed up is that certain problems are coming to a head that are affecting everybody and everybody has their ego out front and are too married to the wrong things they are blaming.

Hopefully the lore content will get a new novel written about it because I'll enjoy the book more than the game. You see it'll be more entertaining to read about these new Jovians or whatever then say, try to get out to nullsec to see them, take forever to establish safe spots, and die in a fire for no reason anyway.

( I could go on but I'll end up with my usual statement of how gate mechanics comprise 80 percent of the suckage and all that)