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Missiles and damage projection lv 4 mission- rattlesnake no slots used
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Minddrain
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-02-13 16:09:36 UTC
Yesterday someone posted a link to a website where I can put some numbers into it and get the missile dps in return.
http://sisterofeve.ru/gmdc/
I was curious and as I just finished mordus headhunters I googled for the npc values, found
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/mission_view.php?id=12
put them into the website and was pretty shocked about the values I saw.
I googled some more and found
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256610
which is basically what Im doing atm. I blow up everything small/medium with drones and use the missiles only versus battleships.
Here comes my lv 4 missionrunner into play. Im using a rattlesnake with a fitting which is tailored for my taste. I sacrifice dps for more mobility, more tank, more range and less interaction. Missiles are pretty unimportant, the rattle is mostly a drone boat with additions. Plus the fitting is really tight and therefore I wont waste a midslot for a targetpainter. Beside I do not like the additional effort for the painter... after some hours it gets annoying. I could prob fit a rigor if I really want.

So back to mordus headhunters and missile damage. The sisterofeve website gives me the option to use lv 5 skills but no rigors for the calculation. I remembered that pyfa
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=247609
has some damage application option and found there similar functionality to the website with even more. Pyfa lets me use my actual fitting for the damage projection.

And this is the problem: To match the damage of t1 inferno cruises (on a t2 launcher) vs a mordus phanti (450 sig, 290 speed) with t2 inferno furies I would need 1 target painter. 1 rigor is not enough. To surpass the damage I would need painter+rigor or 2 rigors.
Caldari navy inferno cruises do similar damage to t2 furies with painter and rigor.

Checking other lv 4 missions with different battleship npcs I saw everywhere the same problem. To get the more damge of t2 furies applied, I need at least 2 dedicated module slots on my ship. If I do not want to sacrifice these Im way better of with t1 cruises. If I need similar damage to t2 furies I simply use cn cruises. This is expensive, I know.

Is there anywhere a fault in this thinking?
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#2 - 2015-02-13 16:24:42 UTC
No it sounds like you have it right.

I've always just run my own tests with T2 fury or javelin/precision and different damage types and get a feel for what works best rather than relying on some websites math.

You have tried precision T2 ammo compared to T1 in your calculations right?

Not today spaghetti.
Minddrain
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-02-13 16:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Minddrain
I did checked the difference between cruise, furies, precision cruise and cn cruise on the sister of eve website. The only difference between cruise and precision cruise seems, that the precision missiles are able to apply the damage better vs faster targets. They do lack the range of the normal cruises as disadvantage.
So basically if youre fighting battleships under 74km (with perfect skills) all the time, there is no reason to not use precision cruises. If you fight at higher range you have to switch missile type. CN cruises are basically always near to the top possible performance.
Furies are only useful with at least 2 slots dedicated (and even than the gain isnt earth shattering) or fighting against npc titans with broken engines.
Chris Winter
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-02-13 23:02:29 UTC
If you only have one rigor, I found your problem.

If you're not using painters, I found your problem.

You're intentionally using the rattlesnake at less than maximum ability, so I'm not really sure where your question is.
Minddrain
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-02-14 01:58:21 UTC
I expected furies to be an upgrade to t1 cruise missiles out of the box. They arent. To reach the same performance as their predecessor I need to invest at least 1 midslot. Maybe the other weapon systems work the same way, I do not know this. I was simply surprised.
This leads to me changing missile types on my rattler after I run out of t2. I do not have the fitting space to run target painters or rigors. Beside I do not want to use painters at all.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-02-14 03:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Minddrain wrote:
I expected furies to be an upgrade to t1 cruise missiles out of the box. They arent. To reach the same performance as their predecessor I need to invest at least 1 midslot. Maybe the other weapon systems work the same way, I do not know this. I was simply surprised.
This leads to me changing missile types on my rattler after I run out of t2. I do not have the fitting space to run target painters or rigors. Beside I do not want to use painters at all.

To be fair... Tech 2 turret ammo is the same way.

The T2 short-range ammo for short-range guns (Blasters, ACs, and Pulse Lasers) cuts range by ~25-50%, tracking by 25-30%, and only deals ~10-15% more damage than Faction short range-ammo (which has a 50% range penalty, no change in tracking).

The T2 long-range ammo for short-range guns (Blasters, ACs, and Pulse Lasers) cuts tracking by ~20-25% and deals as much damage as Faction mid-range ammo (Lead, Titanium Sabot, and Standard) in exchange for ~40% more range.


This makes both ammos VERY situational... because in many situations they are sub-optimal. The same holds true with missiles.

Furies are similar to the T2 short-range ammo for guns; more raw damage but less application (unless used against MUCH larger targets and/or supplemented with other Ewar mods).

Precisions have no real equivalent in turrets... but they pay for their specialization against smaller targets.

edit: I lied. Precision missiles are more similar to Tech 2 short-range ammo for LONG range guns... more tracking (~20% more tracking) and more damage (~15% more damage), but much less range (~75% less range).

How did you Veterans start?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2015-02-14 08:57:20 UTC
I fit for gank, anything else and I'd fall asleep running missions.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-02-14 11:44:30 UTC
T2 ammo isn't an upgrade

it's a choice.

Much like a lot of things in eve.

Art of Explosions
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-02-14 18:13:46 UTC
Perhaps use,

Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"