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Recent Events and a Message
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Underking Family Khimi Harar 153
Conventia Underking Underking Family Khimi Harar Likes received: 153	#61 - 2011-12-20 09:41:40 UTC 2 Diana Kim wrote: So what exactly did I miss? At least, but not limited to, my position on slavery. I am simply, not for or against it. For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity! The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Diana Kim

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,255

#62 - 2011-12-20 10:00:40 UTC

Conventia Underking wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:

So what exactly did I miss?

At least, but not limited to, my position on slavery. I am simply, not for or against it.

You can replace all words 'slavery' with 'vitoc' in my reply, it doesn't change anything.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Conventia Underking

Underking Family

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 153

#63 - 2011-12-20 10:07:50 UTC

Diana Kim wrote:

Conventia Underking wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:

So what exactly did I miss?

At least, but not limited to, my position on slavery. I am simply, not for or against it.

You can replace all words 'slavery' with 'vitoc' in my reply, it doesn't change anything.

In that case, is there anything else left to talk about?

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Diana Kim

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,255

#64 - 2011-12-20 12:35:02 UTC

Conventia Underking wrote:

In that case, is there anything else left to talk about?

Yes - it is the treason because of insignificant matter that could be resolved internally by your former superiors.
Slavery, vitoc, whatever.
You left the Empire, the corporation and your friends behind and now going after them with weapon in your hand... because of this?
Why I want to talk about it? Simple. I want you to feel guilty a second before your ship will blow up. Or even better, you will realize your sin much earlier and will cleanse your name with your own blood yourself.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Repentence Tyrathlion

Tyrathlion Interstellar

Likes received: 538

#65 - 2011-12-20 17:19:14 UTC

Thank you, Conventia. I haven't laughed this hard in weeks.

I make no secret of my opinion that the lowsec wars undertaken by the empires are utterly futile and pointless wastes of life and resources. Aside from some panic when the Gallente realised that they were only employing incompetants and got chunks of their territory auctioned off, what has changed? A lot of crew are dead and the arms manufacturers are a lot richer. So honestly, in that regard, you may do as you please. It's not as though it matters.

But really? You, joining the TLF? I still vividly remember the blazing lecture you gave me over that little prank. I had you marked down in my mind as a perfect little PIE - and then Morwen tells me you've joined Teraa Matar.

Thank you so much. I just wish I could have seen dear Laerise's face when she heard about this... that would have made this perfect.

Try not to die too often. Do tell Catlin to get in touch if she needs some advice about dealing with the social issues of having a traitor for a sister.

Caellach Marellus

Stormcrows

Likes received: 1,584

#66 - 2011-12-20 17:22:11 UTC

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

I just wish I could have seen dear Laerise's face when she heard about this.

Feed a Wasp to a Bulldog, it should be a close enough resemblance.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Andreus Ixiris

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6,068

#67 - 2011-12-20 18:16:54 UTC

Conventia Underking wrote:

In that case, is there anything else left to talk about?

Ms. Underking, given my newfound respect for you, I would advise you not to attempt holding any sort of meaningful dialogue with Ms. Kim - you will surely be disappointed in this endeavour. Most pertinently, you are liable to expend your patience and your sanity in a length of time infinitely shorter than it will take for her to understand your side of the argument.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Katrina Oniseki

Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch

Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive

Likes received: 3,476

#68 - 2011-12-20 18:27:45 UTC

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Conventia Underking wrote:

In that case, is there anything else left to talk about?

That's the first thing you've ever said that made me laugh. Well, maybe the second.

Katrina Oniseki


Conventia Underking Underking Family Khimi Harar Likes received: 153	#69 - 2011-12-20 18:40:34 UTC 2 Diana Kim wrote: Simple. I want you to feel guilty... I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, in this, you will gain no satisfaction. For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity! The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking


Conventia Underking Underking Family Khimi Harar Likes received: 153	#70 - 2011-12-20 18:42:42 UTC 2 Repentence Tyrathlion wrote: Try not to die too often. Do tell Catlin to get in touch if she needs some advice about dealing with the social issues of having a traitor for a sister. You know how I feel, you can tell her yourself. For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity! The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Conventia Underking

Underking Family

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 153

#71 - 2011-12-20 18:44:13 UTC

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Duly noted.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking


Katrina Oniseki Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive Likes received: 3,476	#72 - 2011-12-20 19:04:47 UTC 1 "Hypocrisy is the most difficult and nerve-racking vice that any man can pursue; it needs an unceasing vigilance and a rare detachment of spirit. It cannot, like adultery or gluttony, be practised at spare moments; it is a whole-time job." Katrina Oniseki

Kalaratiri

Full Broadside

Deepwater Hooligans

Likes received: 1,052

#73 - 2011-12-20 22:45:45 UTC

I would also like to take a quick moment to give a, slightly delayed, welcome to Miss Underking. From the breif talk we've had, I'm sure she will be a welcome and enlightening addition to our ranks. I wish her good luck.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Pax Thar

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 81

#74 - 2011-12-21 01:17:25 UTC | Edited by: Pax Thar

Alistair Cononach wrote:

Astrid Stjerna wrote:

The Empire has had seven hundred years to change of their own accord, and each of those seven hundred years have been filled with excuses.

Pre-Capsuleer Time is meaningless. The verse has changed on a fundamental level, and what came before is nothing.

Since the dawn of the New Age, there has already been progress, and more made every day.

The fact that I, an Amarrian, faithful to GOD, not the theocracy, am free to be openly liberal on the issue of Slavery, openly call for it's end, and a new course taken by the Faith to bring it's wisdom to those who seek it, speaks volumes in and of itself.

Time is the greatest weapon against the darkness of Slavery.

Time.

And with Time, the black and bloody scar on the Amarrian Soul that Slavery is WILL be laid low.

Quote:

We want real progress.

When, since the dawn of man, has shooting a man changed his mind?

It's a laughable childish tactic, used by wrongheaded fools throughout human history.

Progress cannot be made by force.

If it could, the Amarrian way, of slavery by force, would have worked.

The fact you don;t see the irony here is stunning.

In effect, you argue that Amarrian Faith can never convert by force, but Matari liberalism can.

Foolish children. Given the gift of being a Capsuleer, but apparently not enough sense to see the Slave Holders and the Slave Fighters are two sides of the same violent, circular repetative cycle coin.

That every ship you destroy or Amarrian settlement you raid, provides the Amarrian hardliners the fodder they need to plead their case against you in the Imperial Court of the Empress.

True change comes not from violence. But from diplomacy and conversation and time. Always time, especially now, in this new age, where men like us can and do rule Empires of our own.

Remember, Empires rarely fall due to threats from outside. They always fall from within.

So if I understand you correctly, you would have us lay down our arms and wait for the almighty Amarr to grant us freedom, equality and everything that comes with it when they deem enough time has passed?

Should we stand idley by while our brothers and sister live their lives in bondage, hoping that one day the Empire will "come around"? Would you?

Everything you have said I can say in reverse... we provide fodder for your hardliners, by holding slaves you provide fooder to ALL Minmatar.

True change comes from diplomacy yes, but war is just politics through other means. Without the Minmatar revolt there would be no voice for change now, without this continued war you would have no reason to even seek change. The status quo is unacceptable and you have left us no recourse other than to fight, surely you can see that. If you cant you are more dense than you appear, which is hard to top. Violence is and has been the catalyst to all the change that has occured thus far, its all you people understand.

I welcome Underking to Teraa Matar, and the war. That brave Amarrian warriors like herself are willing to make the hard choice to stand against the Empire is refreshing and hopefull. I embrace the chance to fight alongside someone of such quality, regarless of race.

Conventia Underking

Underking Family

Khimi Harar

Likes received: 153

#75 - 2011-12-21 09:22:42 UTC

Kalaratiri wrote:

Thank you for such high praise, Major Saskia.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking

Diana Kim

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,255

#76 - 2011-12-22 10:59:49 UTC

Conventia Underking wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:

Simple. I want you to feel guilty...

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, in this, you will gain no satisfaction.

Think for yourself. Don't listen to gallente's filth. They can't back their words, they are as empty as their souls.
Now you are trying to help tribals to destroy everything you lived for.

Still no doubts? Shocked

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Caellach Marellus

Stormcrows

Likes received: 1,584

#77 - 2011-12-22 11:12:28 UTC

Diana Kim wrote:

Conventia Underking wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:

Simple. I want you to feel guilty...

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, in this, you will gain no satisfaction.

Think for yourself. Don't listen to gallente's filth. Shocked

Doesn't take a Gallentian mindset to know that Vitoc is a horrific creation. Just takes a rational moral one.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.


Andreus Ixiris Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation Likes received: 6,068	#78 - 2011-12-22 12:18:28 UTC 1 Diana Kim wrote: Don't listen to gallente's filth. They can't back their words I'm sorry, whose militia is hemorrhaging members, territory and dignity again? Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3,255

#79 - 2011-12-22 13:20:30 UTC

Caellach Marellus wrote:

Doesn't take a Gallentian mindset to know that Vitoc is a horrific creation. Just takes a rational moral one.

It doesn't matter how much horrific creation Vitoc is, Gallentean mindset made her to betray everything because of it, and this is really horrific.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Caellach Marellus

Stormcrows

Likes received: 1,584

#80 - 2011-12-22 13:37:12 UTC

Diana Kim wrote:

Caellach Marellus wrote:

Doesn't take a Gallentian mindset to know that Vitoc is a horrific creation. Just takes a rational moral one.

It doesn't matter how much horrific creation Vitoc is, Gallentean mindset made her to betray everything because of it, and this is really horrific.

Pretty sure she's joined a Matari loyallist corporation, run by a Matari who strongly believes in her own ancestral culture.

Your poor attempt to label everything as "Gallente" and claiming such things are horrific, without explaining either what is apparently Gallentian about it, or why it's so evil is quite worrying. I question that you were given a fair and well balanced education growing up.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

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