Crime & Punishment

It seems research is hard, yes. James used to whine in early 2012 about "the carebears" in his manifestos, then created code (originally as the Halaima permit) following changes announced in June 2012 about mining barge buffs as a response to those changes.

Ice belts were shrunk as near infinite resources was a pretty bad idea. It wasn't a direct response to code, it was a response to a general feeling that ice was providing very little to the game. It still provides very little as they are still static in size and location, only smaller.

Actually, EVE is a sandbox and most agree that there is no winning criteria beyond what you set yourself. You guys have set out to rid highsec of carebear miners, and yet nearly every system you travel through still has carebear miners in it. I may be in the CFC, but I've never been one to care for isk destroyed, and neither has quite a large potion of the players I play with. Who cares about isk efficiency if you complete your set objective? Sure, we sling "killboard green" around as a way to taunt people after individual battles, but all that is, it's just talk.

I do like how you jump straight to "he must be buttmad!" though in classic code member style. I personally am unaffected by code. I don't mine in highsec and anything I haul is done by third party haulers in over-collateralised contracts. When gankers have killed haulers transporting my stuff, I've actually made more isk that I would if it made it to the market. That doesn;t mean that I can't look at code objectively as see that your claim of victory are no different to Veers. Both are unfounded claims. I just hear code going on about it a hell of a lot more than Veers does.

It's a commonly accepted problem that killboard values are incorrect because values don't get split between participants, they get the full kill value of the ship on each character. Take a 20 man gank of a freighter worth 10b isk. That turns into 200b of kill value on a killboard as each player involved gets a 10b kill, but what should really happen is each player should get 500m each. This means that using multiple characters allows you to inflate each individual character's killboard with full kill values of kills you otherwise wouldn't be able to get at all, skewing the data considerably in your favour.

Just because my awesome friend Loyalanon is having a break, doesnt mean mining bots are allowed in Uedama!

Apparently you're unaware of the origins of code. The "Halaima permit" is what James originally called it when he ran around bumping people in Halaima as a business venture. The majority of that business post is what now makes up the code. If you go onto your miner bumping site, and follow the link in paragraph 3 you'll find the original post referring to people paying for the "Halaima permit".

Note the author of the thread. James 315 wrote that then later moved it to the minerbumping site, dubbing it the code. Out of curiosity, who did you think created the code?

Actually, ice had long been an issue as there was so much available that it was nearly impossible to compete over ice. As part of the resource rebalance in Odyssey (involving ore, ice and moon materials across the whole of EVE, not just highsec) ice was reduced down to a level which mean that people would need to compete over the collection of the limited ice, rather than just mine all day. The improved cycle times at the same time to stop it from being quite as long and dull a task. It had nothing to do with any "crying".

No, I claimed that code is losing because they are years in and are possibly further from their goals than ever. Highsec carebears still exist and still refuse to pay for permits. A decrease in member count from members like loyalanon is simply a decrease in the number of kills you can achieve, which doesn't help you, but doesn't prove you are losing either. If you note, my objection was to BOTH of you claiming victory when no victory exists on either side.

And no, I've not seen a single code member trying to educate anyone. What you want is everyone to pay you isk to mine, and find reasons to revoke their permits once they have, as well as harvesting the "carebear tears" when you troll them in local so that the minerbumping blog has something to post.

Well, you're wrong. The objective is often all that matters. I don't remember the last time I heard a CFC member crying about their killboard efficiency. The only part of it that matters is "are we generating more isk than we lose", which is invariably a yes. When we go on an OP, there's an objective and that's what we aim to complete. The only reason ISK comes into it is when we are chucking more value than an objective is worth at a OP. Of course people are motivated by the chance of a fight, that's the fun part of the game.

Back to the actual point though since this has wandered wildly off topic, no, a lot of people don't see ISK destroyed as winning critera especially when that ISK destroyed is unarmed newbies in industrial ships.

I've never been "buttmad" over the New Order. I think you're a bunch of PvP equivalent carebears, looking for easy kills against targets that shoot back on disposable alts, but I'm in no way mad about it. I support highsec playstyles, sure, I even support ganking. What I don't support is dead easy content which allows people to farm kills from players who don't know what they are doing. I don't think CODE members are good "content creators" just because they shoot stuff either. I support content creation, I don't support what you call content.

I realized you weren't referring to CODE. and edited my post accordingly, that was definitely my bad, but I assure you I know all about the New Halaima Code of Conduct, the blog and permit.



I'm glad you missed my point.

And odyssey happened after what? And what was the big story surrounding Highsec ice again?



"effect of CODE is reduced due to people leaving, than you claiming victory by default as CODE members tend to do. The Code is also losing." That statement implies that you believe the New Order is losing, or going to lose because of membership. This idea, or theory, or whatever you want to call seems to stem from the fact that loyal is taking a break; as you pointed out. Have you heard of Ziaeon before? It's okay, you can look him up.

Then you haven't been looking very hard. Miners lose their permits if they AFK. Holding a permit does not exempt one from the Code. Also, permit holders get AFK checked, whereas non-permit holders just get exploded.

I suppose my "Do some research." applies here now.




I hate to be the one that has to tell you this, most grunts don't care about the objective. Most grunts care about the fights. More grunts will show up to said objective if there's going to be a fight.

My point isn't KB efficiency, however, on this subject that's starting to spiral off my point is simply more players care more about the fights rather than whatever random structure they're defending, or attacking; cause we all know how fun structure grinding can be.

6VDT wasn't about the station, it was about the fight. Same can be said about HED; hell, even the week long hell camp of 0-W778 was more about the impending breakout than it was about the actual station. The station did play a major part objectively speaking, obviously, but more players were interested in the breakout, ie the fight, than camping a station so some ships could be locked away. It just so happens that 0-W778 worked out beautifully for both the fight and the objective during that time.

And before you say, "butbut you rbought up isk/death stufs", I did, but I used that as a reference to explain why the New Order is winning where you were saying the New Order was losing.



Now you're just trolling.

Since Odyssey was a full expansion covering a complete resource overhaul across the whole of eve (not just highsec), and a mass of other features, I'm not sure what specific conversation you are referring to. What I do know is that the code existing had nothing to do with the ice problems being addressed since they were a known issue long before the code existed.

If you take the full quote: "How is it any different for him to claim victory when the effect of CODE is reduced due to people leaving, than you claiming victory by default as CODE members tend to do", it's asking specifically that. What's the difference. He is stating he is winning because he think players leaving code indicates they are losing due to the reduction in activity, while you are claiming the code is always winning, just because. How is your claim any more valid than his? The answer is that it's not. You're both batshit crazy fighting a losing battle. And you're not even really fighting each other.

I'm well aware of how code permits works. As a previous code member has once said, if the target can be ganked, then they were obviously not following the code as a code compliant player can't be ganked. This is the reason that permits are irrelevant. If you simply make yourself near impossible to gank you don't need a permit. And still, that doesn't mean you are teaching players. For the most part, ganking someone doesn't implicitly teach them anything, and most players aren't interested in reading multiple pages of junk on what is effectively an RP cult website. If you were really interested in teaching miners, you're going about it the wrong way. I've taught a considerable number of miners how to more effectively avoid being ganked, without having to fly around blowing people up.

Indeed they are. Like I said, that's the fun part of the game.

You did use that to explain that, yes, but like I said before ISK destroyed doesn't mean you are winning just because you say that's what it means. Most players consider the context of kills to be equally as important as the value.

No, I'm not. I legitimately believe that ganking is the combat equivalent of carebearing. You don't want to leave highsec because other space is too hard, you don't risk significant assets and avoid as much risk as you possibly can, you mainly play on alts so that any negative consequences don't affect your mains, and you complain to no end when you playstyle is likely to be nerfed or if opposing playstyles are to be buffed. The only difference between you and a carebear miner is that you fire your turrets at mining barges while they fire theirs at rocks.

I certainly don't believe that ganking is good content creation, since it only really provides any content for the player doing the shooting. The player being shot it just adds an extra step to get back to the gameplay they want. The targets you pick are almost always players who have little to no idea of what they are doing and are generally pushed into freaking out in local so there's something to go on the blog.

Good content creates are people like BNI, RvB, or creators of NPSI groups for example. They create ways for players to engage in bi-directional interation. They don't just farm easy kills in a relatively safe environment and claim that's content.

Translation: I don't like you guys so I'm going to cherry pick part of your motivation and then attempt to shoot it down without proof, thus clearly winning the arguement.

Lol, sorry mate but that's a ludicrous claim and you're going to need more proof than your word. CCP did a massive overhaul on a system that had been terrible since LONG before the code even existed. I don't believe for a second that the code had anything to do with their motivations to change it, and if you can't provide categoric evidence of that, I'm going to call complete bullshit on that one. The resource overhaul was a long overdue change to the entire game extending far beyond high sec ice belts.

No, that's something you've wrong ly assumed me to be saying, and it's got you all defensive. And no, you're claim is ALSO bullshit. The code does not in fact always win, even if you try to claim that everything is a victory condition for yourself. Also I'm not in fact a carebear, so swing and a miss there too buddy.

On alts perhaps they do, who knows. And no, this came up before. Most gankers use alts. Someone even did a poll on it on here and it worked out like 75% were alts or something.

Buying a new ship is not very good content. And if you notice I stated that it's not good content creation. Pretty much everything in game is some form of content creation, some of it is just rubbish and not very beneficial to the game as a whole, while other parts are great. What people like you do is purposely go out of your way to upset newer players so you can feel some sort of superiority without having to put any effort into your playstyle. Even this conversation, practically every sentence you've put has been condescending in tone, which is quite amusing since if that's your main (as you supposedly all use your mains) then you're not even a 4 year old player yet you have to nerve to lecture a 10 year vet on the history of EVE.

[citation needed]

please provide the results of this "someone" who did some "poll on it here" and show how it worked out to "like 75% alts or something"