Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I know this topic has been on the table several times. I’m pretty sure I started one myself (sorry too lazy to check ).

1) Anyway recently after ganking several poor farmers in null and wh I realized that whichever direction CCP plans to go with this notion (if it plans at all ;) one thing should be done regardless of anything:

PvE should require fits that would also work for PvP.

It means rats running away if not scramed, all-ewar warking on them and so on… Details are less important than the general idea that the potential ganker like me should be aware that the pve ship is able to defend itself and I can’t just adopt tactic “I’ll just run away if is too tanked" etc.

2) The other things I would like to mention here are the hi sec missions in general. Why on earth a new player who can bearly fly a single ship is forced to engage several factions rats who require different ships and different fits. On the other hand a veteran player with good standing towards agent mostly gets his race specific rats. Nice but when I play almost every ship in the game I can have a park of them for every mssion. A month old-player can’t.

And again facing different rats should prepare player for different types of pvp (I think burner missions are a good add on in this regard) using ewar, understanding pros and cons of different weapon systems etc. and it should be all explained while doing this.

3) Last but not least: in all our interest is that more new players come to EVE. So for gods sake can please make a tutorial that is both detailed, user-friendly and entertaining at the same time? I had a friend who really wanted to play eve but got lost on one of the first tasks in tutorial. Agreed maybe he was not to bright, but not many people are .

I have also felt that this disparity of PvE and PvP setups is hurting the game and a simple change would simply be to be able to define two fits which can then be switched on the fly, with maybe a minute or two cooldown.

Not only would that make it so that PvE pilots wouldnt be sitting ducks for PvP but also make PvE more interesting to be able to change fits on the fly, depending on what you are doing. Such as exploration fits, combat fits, salvage fits etc.

A lot of MMOs have this so why not Eve?

People run missions in 'PvE fits' because they can. If players want that to change they should horribly exploit the holes in the fit by ganking missions runners embarrassingly (a bunch of venture taking down a BS with the appropriate drones for instance). Mission runners would rapidly change to a more PvP fit.

If players won't make other players change then why should CCP?

True enough...and I just realized that what the OP wants may well be happening with the changes to come from the circadian sleeper drones scanning us and those new Drifters coming in...

I agree with that. Make NPCs smarter and not immune to EWAR.
Furthermore, PVE sites should be redone, in my opinion. It just doesn't make sense, that i can engage several battleships, battlecruisers and dozens of frigates at the same time in A SINGLE cruiser and win that fight. PVE sites should have far less, but more dangerous NPCs.


It's not that hard to switch out 2 or 3 hardeners, is it? You don't need a fleet of ships, to do all the various missions. One well fit ship is enough.


Yeah well, tutorial needs some work. We all know that. And CCP is working on it.

Flawed argument. People use PvE fits for the same reason people use PvP fits, because that is what it is optimal for. To use a PvP fit in PvE would gimp your activities as much as using a PvE fit in PvP. It is a poor solution for a real problem.

And CCP are the developers of the game for which they are paid for. CCP should make changes to better the game, other players have no such obligation.

So what is really happening is that the vast majority of mission runners stay in high sec to avoid getting ganked by someone with a fit made for PvP, where as they are fit for PvE.

A PvE fit is optimal in PvE. Basically you are saying a PvE fit would not be optimal for PvPvE and that is obviously the case. However, fitting a PvPvE fit is not really viable and hence why many other games have created fits which you can seamlessly change between. I don't see that would not be possible in Eve, short of upsetting you old timers who don't want the game to change.

Also your solution is asking for the people to get ganked to be forced to fit for PvPvE but the gankers can still use their PvP fits.

The assumption that players would engage in PvP if they also used PvP fits for PvE is a daft one. Players that don't PvP are not likely to start just because the same fits are required for missions.

I agree it is silly that a single ship can kill a hundred red crosses, but this is a game, and grinding individual targets is boring.

Burner missions are almost what you are asking for, but since players know what they are engaging first, they can pick a ship with a favourable natural resistance profile, suitable speed and engagement range. They can even select the best ammo.

If mission AI perfectly resmebled other players and PvP fits were required to beat them, why then would someone go to PvP an actual player, where their loss mail would be published on a kill board hurting their epeen?

I think the mental barrier you mention does exist but it's a survival instinct barrier. New players don't want to die repeatedly, which is how they can actually learn to PvP. The current "advanced combat" tutorial tries to address that somewhat by making dieing an objective of a couple of the missions.

I think hard lvl 1 burner missions might be a way to encourage more PvP and help players get used to dieing but it might also scare new players out of the game. There is balance required there.

You contradict yourself. To be successful at PvP u need a lot of knowledge - you write it yourself. You can’t just win by hitting buttons randomly or using grande launcher like in FFS . Sure a young, BUT TRAINED player can defeat a veteran player but just proves my point. You need some sort of guidance to conduct P2P. Without it you will NEVER succeed - no intuitive behavior will help you.