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[Tiamat] Corp Friendly Fire Option

First post
Author
Tetsel
House Amamake
#121 - 2015-02-11 11:52:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be blunt, it's a terrible idea to make it optimal to lock yourself into solo play. Everyone loses if we build mechanics like that.

Taxes are also a fairly ineffective method for influencing choices since they apply heavily to some activities while not applying at all to other activities.


I'll be sooo glad you to explain us how the mandatory 11% tax in NPC corp, isn't it a "fairly ineffective method for influencing choices" ??? Where is you God now Mr Fozzie ??!!!

Why carebears shouldn't pay for an extra CONCORD service ?

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore

Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#122 - 2015-02-11 12:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Tetsel wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To be blunt, it's a terrible idea to make it optimal to lock yourself into solo play. Everyone loses if we build mechanics like that.

Taxes are also a fairly ineffective method for influencing choices since they apply heavily to some activities while not applying at all to other activities.


I'll be sooo glad you to explain us how the mandatory 11% tax in NPC corp, isn't it a "fairly ineffective method for influencing choices" ??? Where is you God now Mr Fozzie ??!!!

Why carebears shouldn't pay for an extra CONCORD service ?


Why gankbears shouldn't pay for an extra CONCORD bypassing service? This is not extra CONCORD protection service - this is a fix for free CONCORD removal service. You are not entitled to bypass CONCORD in hisec for free, this is a design strategy that has been there since CONCORD appearance, so this is not extra protection, it's just fixing things to how they are supposed to be.

All mandatory 11% tax in NPC corps does is making people play in me-and-my-alts player corps, and only do so when they do taxable activity. I call that fairly ineffective.

ED: You people have the wrong perspective on this whole issue. Since you think that the default is "FF legal", you think some extra protection has been added, however, it was clearly stated that it was made optional ONLY because RvB wanted their hisec free-for-alls. The default if "FF illegal", "FF legal" is self-wardec mode, while "FF illegal" is the default intended behavior, which should've been that way ever since crimewatch, but got delayed due to hurr-durr freighter webbing I-cant-manage-my-safety derpettes. Once again, treating the default intended mode as "extra" is wrong, and the fact it were broken before doesn't justify this mistake in thinking.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#123 - 2015-02-11 20:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Basil Pupkin wrote:
You people have the wrong perspective on this whole issue

Don't be such a prat.

No one's perspective is wrong. Each is just as valid as the other. That your's in this instance is in agreement with the direction that CCP had chosen to go is fine. Many of us have a different view. Those views aren't wrong and we are right to express them because we are all stakeholders in this game.

If all we are to do is nod our head in agreement all the time, then this game would be much worse for everyone being yes men and not providing meaningful and honest feedback and perspectives.

It is a feedback forum after all.

TL;DR: **** off with your smugness. What goes around comes around and I'm sure there are often decisions you don't agree with. Guess it'll just be tears when you want to express those views right?
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#124 - 2015-02-12 01:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
You people have the wrong perspective on this whole issue

Don't be such a prat.

No one's perspective is wrong. Each is just as valid as the other. That your's in this instance is in agreement with the direction that CCP had chosen to go is fine. Many of us have a different view. Those views aren't wrong and we are right to express them because we are all stakeholders in this game.

If all we are to do is nod our head in agreement all the time, then this game would be much worse for everyone being yes men and not providing meaningful and honest feedback and perspectives.

It is a feedback forum after all.

TL;DR: **** off with your smugness. What goes around comes around and I'm sure there are often decisions you don't agree with. Guess it'll just be tears when you want to express those views right?


Yeah, it probably will be tears. At least it was, when Fozzie ruined mining in Odyssey. Though I think he had learned his lesson and won't touch industry again, as it took 5 buffs for the mining to recover to 75% of pre-odyssey levels, while being dominated by bots when their limits were Fozzified in Odyssey.

Guess I'm just being vengeful, finding the "change" (actually, bugfix) I completely agree with, and dishing out every HTFU I took on changes I don't agree with, back at whoever is bitter.

You can't disagree though that many of the "opinions" against this change are awfully tear-jerking. But criers be crying, I guess. Imagine this, someday CCP fixes POS hangars (ok, yeah, just humor me and imagine they did) and will remove another hack - storing items in ship arrays. And though it will offer no substantial benefit with fixed hangars, wormholers will object to this change, maybe because it'll take them too much time and effort to review their POS setups and haul new additional hangars, enough so they'd rather drop POS and quit. Imaginary CCP listens and gives them a switch in corp info which allows them to register as wormhole corp, and keep storing stuff in ship arrays. Next thing I know is people like crybabies in this thread arguing there should be a tax for this "extra utility", because "wormhole corps don't rely on bounties anyway,but those (insert generic dehumanizing term with insulting meaning, i.e. "carebears") deserve to pay for extra utility". Would that be tears? Tears indeed. And jealousy. "CCP gives other boys something but not me". Which is why, addressing reasoning like this, I'm keeping my smugness.

A bugfix happened. Things went to how they were supposed to be. And some cry because they loved exploiting the bug to give themselves a free ride on it. No more. CCP has already listened to their tears and, as an exception among exceptions, given them the switch, which covers every borderline valid use case they brought into discussion - and what? Now they want to penalize everyone for not being as exceptional as they are. You know the right answer to this? Because I do: cry me a retriever.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Deekz
Duck University
#125 - 2015-02-12 22:04:10 UTC
Where is CCP and why aren't they having a discussion with the people who have a stake in this? There have been no discussions about this with the people in EVE who are affected by it.

Changing playstyles is a big deal and CCP should be considering how we all feel about it before making this change. The very few responses by CCP have not be productive to the discussion, nor have they taken any of our concerns into consideration.

There are many good arguments here for and against the change. Can we please get some feedback CCP?
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#126 - 2015-02-13 07:26:06 UTC
Deekz wrote:
Where is CCP and why aren't they having a discussion with the people who have a stake in this? There have been no discussions about this with the people in EVE who are affected by it.

Changing playstyles is a big deal and CCP should be considering how we all feel about it before making this change. The very few responses by CCP have not be productive to the discussion, nor have they taken any of our concerns into consideration.

There are many good arguments here for and against the change. Can we please get some feedback CCP?


It was ran with CSM, and honestly, CCP is being extremely considerate on the matter.
The correct way were just equalize NPC corps with player corps so it was both "FF illegal".

But tears were shed about RvB freeforalls (which are, arguably, but content), and about people who wanted to keep their freighter webbing bots functional without going thru pain of updating them with dueling the freighter.

CCP went extra length and delayed the removal of corp aggression hack to implement the switch, which covered each and every, however crazy, use-case cons have brought into discussion.

Now I can understand their answers too. Should they say what I say, every freighter in the new eden would be needed to counter the tear flood. They cannot publicly admit that the whole AWOX snafu was a bug, and it's getting fixed, and instead cover the issue with "player retention" and "meaningful choices", and other various unrelated stuff. I know you feel they lie to you and get agitated, but the truth will call #eveisdying and #evegonesoft tear-nado of incredible proportions from people who made it their "playstyle" to enjoy every bug which gives them stuff without trying. Check this thread, we're hearing all kinds of completely hypocritical rationalizations like "some people deserve to be awoxed" or "I haven't been asked" or downright "bawww noobs are getting extra protection what am I going to do without free targets?".

Bottom line: The change is a bugfix, a hack removal. CCP were super extra considerate to your concerns, and delayed removing this hack for more than a year to give you a switch, in order to be able to bypass an iron rule "no FREE non-consensual pvp in hisec" (there's still a crap lot more of it in hisec, despite being not free, than in any other place). Switch has covered every valid use-case CSM and their respondents could think of. You want dialogue - become CSM member or enlist with one (just not Sabriz and Tora, two cretins are just trolling and sabotaging the whole point of CSM) and become his respondent, because that's how dialog were had, because that's how you got the switch instead of just hack removal, and not even happy with this gift. Shame on you.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Claud Tiberius
#127 - 2015-02-13 11:06:56 UTC
Deekz wrote:
Where is CCP and why aren't they having a discussion with the people who have a stake in this? There have been no discussions about this with the people in EVE who are affected by it.

Changing playstyles is a big deal and CCP should be considering how we all feel about it before making this change. The very few responses by CCP have not be productive to the discussion, nor have they taken any of our concerns into consideration.

There are many good arguments here for and against the change. Can we please get some feedback CCP?

More often than not, the Dev Blogs will have CCP's opinion. There is a whole page dedicated to Friendly Fire.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.