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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Ships

Author
Delta Naskingar
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#1 - 2015-02-12 12:59:00 UTC
How do i knowe what ship is best whit hullarmor or shields.
or do you use both.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-02-12 13:15:13 UTC
Look at the ship's traits and see if it has bonuses to a particular type of tanking,
generally (though not always) you don't waste a bonus.

If it's not then look at the attributes tab and check the shield and armour hp and resistance, this should give you a clue.

Generally though the races are known for particular types of tanking I.e. amarr = buffer armour, gallente = active armour, caldari = shield .

There's loads of exceptions to this though so you should check the ship's individually
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-02-12 13:24:00 UTC
And never use both
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2015-02-12 13:30:26 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both

emphasising this.

Pic armour or shield, not both
Delta Naskingar
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2015-02-12 13:39:41 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both


Whay
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#6 - 2015-02-12 13:57:39 UTC
Delta Naskingar wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both


Whay


Because hardcore guys do not know how to bait properly ;) There is very limited number of tasks, when some certain ship can and should use both low and medium slots for tank.

But in the other 99 % of job you want to do you need low slots for tank and middle slots for damage or opposite. Usually low slots are for armor/hull tanking, middle slots are for shield tanking. There is a whole theory what is better unde what circumstances and why, but almost always there are exceptions form that rules.

TL;DR version : so you do not waste too many slots on tank.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2015-02-12 13:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Delta Naskingar wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both


Whay

Because you will be craps at both.

Pic one and focus on it because yo can field a much more effective tank than if you try compramise and to do both.

Doing both will net you two easily breakable tanks (and likely gimpy dps) as opposed to one though to break one With good dps.

There's exceptions to this but they're for fairly experienced pilots.

Edit: as mentioned above, if you're being bait then that's one of those exeptions but it's not something generally done outside of a handful of specific ships.
Memphis Baas
#8 - 2015-02-12 14:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Delta Naskingar wrote:
Why?


When an enemy sees you, they will shoot you with everything they have. Defending against that is like defending against a tsunami wave: you put all the effort into making the tallest wall possible, rather than 2 smaller walls.

Your ship will have a limited number of slots, and limited power and CPU for modules, so if you're going to tank it, put all that power and the maximum number of slots that you can use into making one big defense (shields, or armor), rather than two small defenses.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2015-02-12 14:52:22 UTC
really cant emphasise this enough
(because its the most common nubie mistake after shooting the suspect in their mission poket)
Two small tanks is worse than on small one because,
you will have less mid slots for damage application (in the case of armour)
or less low slots for dps mods (in the case of shields)

in the case of two nubies in the same ship,
one dual tanking the other not,

the dual tanker is at a distinct disadvantage because his ship is lacking utility (unless hes bait for someone in a well fit ship)
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-02-12 14:53:29 UTC
Because you only have so many slots. If you are going to tank, you want it to be the best tank it can be. But depending on your ship, skills, and purpose, you need to have some or all of damage, fitting, capacitor, ecm, and propulsion modules somewhere. The better tank is to have one set of slots dedicated to it, and the other set of slots doing all the other things (with certain exceptions, your main prop mod is always going to use a midslot for example). If you split the tanking duty, you also end up splitting the duties of everything else, so you might not have many more "tank" modules fitted, but they are now spread in to two weak tanks rather than one solid one (resist modules are the ones that suffer most in this situation, as they are only applying to half the tank, rather than all of it).

Also, if you run an active tank, you only have so much capacitor. If you are running twice as many repair modules, your capacitor is going to crap out twice as fast (and since the slots you could have put cap recharge or booster modules in are fitted with the other tank, it'll likely crap out even faster).

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2015-02-12 15:17:17 UTC
Btw, the same goes for guns as well, matching all of them is the way to go, for more or less the same reasons.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2015-02-12 18:20:41 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Delta Naskingar wrote:
Why?


When an enemy sees you, they will shoot you with everything they have. Defending against that is like defending against a tsunami wave: you put all the effort into making the tallest wall possible, rather than 2 smaller walls.

Your ship will have a limited number of slots, and limited power and CPU for modules, so if you're going to tank it, put all that power and the maximum number of slots that you can use into making one big defense (shields, or armor), rather than two small defenses.

This is, by far, one the most coherent explanations I have seen regarding the rule "never duel tank." I am saving this for future use.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-02-12 19:59:19 UTC
What tank to use:

* ship bonuses (a ship with shield bonus should be shield tanked).
* ship raw HP point (a ship with twice the armor points over shield should be armor tanked)
* slot layout (a ship with 6 mid and 1 low slot is better at shield tanking).

WhY not both:

Cause you will suck at both.

You have limited slots and limited fitting room (CPU and Powergrid) and going dual tank will mean you will gimp on your tank and general ships ability HORRIBLY.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2015-02-12 20:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
M'pact
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-12 21:36:53 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both

Not quite true.

It is possible to have a successful fit with both shield and armor tank, but it only happens rarely. Like on the new Svipul. I've seen dual-tank fits from Singularity, due to he resist boosts to both shields and armor in Defensive mode.

There are other ships that also dual-tank well.

When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me. - -

Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-02-12 22:44:57 UTC
M'pact wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both

Not quite true.

It is possible to have a successful fit with both shield and armor tank, but it only happens rarely. Like on the new Svipul. I've seen dual-tank fits from Singularity, due to he resist boosts to both shields and armor in Defensive mode.

There are other ships that also dual-tank well.


The amount of ships that use dual tank are by far a big exception to the rule.

Specially cause most of those ships have a very specific duty, which by performing that duty, you by then should already be well into the knowledge how tanking works.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-02-12 22:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Slot layout is a big giveaway. Shield tank needs lots of mids while armor tank needs lots of lows.

Some ships swing either way, Gnosis for example. In other cases you get things like the Vexor which is really an armor tank ship but it actually also makes a pretty good passive shield tanker.

There are very specific cases where dual tank is useful. Bait ships as mentioned is one. PVE missions where you are trying not to kill the rats (to avoid a standing loss) and just need to hack/mine/traverse are another.

The "do not dual tank" rule is especially significant for shield tankers as there are useful shield mods for both low and high slots. There are no useful armor tank midslot mods, although if your one of those perverse types no-one mentions that are into hull tanking there is a hull repper module.
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2015-02-12 23:14:49 UTC
Some ships like the breacher are almost always dual tanked due to nothing else useful fitting in the low slot that uses less than 14 cpu (full T2 AB/Rockets/Meta4 scramweb and a booster)

In most cases however, you will have enough resources to fit something beneficial to your tanking style in your spare mids or lows, or even something to help your offensive (Overtanking will cripple your dps)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#19 - 2015-02-12 23:55:46 UTC
M'pact wrote:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
And never use both

Not quite true.

It is possible to have a successful fit with both shield and armor tank, but it only happens rarely. Like on the new Svipul. I've seen dual-tank fits from Singularity, due to he resist boosts to both shields and armor in Defensive mode.

There are other ships that also dual-tank well.

its true untill you are experienced enough to figure out what the exceptions are.

if you cant figure out on your own by looking at the attributes if its a good or bad idea then "never dual tank" should hold true.



Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2015-02-13 03:39:05 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


if you cant figure out on your own by looking at the attributes if its a good or bad idea then "never dual tank" should hold true.




This.

Another thing I'd add.

Modules that add absolute HP ("800mm Reinforced Steel Plates II" or "Large Shield Extender II") should not be used alongside modules that consume capacitor to 'heal' damage to you.

There are exceptions but these are rare.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

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