EVE General Discussion

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

EVE is changing, yes, it's not becoming significantly safer, and it's not becoming significantly more dangerous either. It's just becoming different. Safety and Danger are what the players make of it. If Goons started a burn Jita 24/7 and actually could shut down all the trade hubs, and did so, then I'm quite sure CCP would respond in some way. Because player actions would have made the game so dangerous that in order to protect the long term health of the game CCP would have to take steps. Just like they did when MOO abused tankable concord to perma gank systems.
It's a sand box, but that doesn't mean you can **** in it without long term consequence, and CCP and most of us want to keep the sand fresh for play of all types long term.

No I live in highsec. Being proud about being content or whatever that meme crap is certainly is a thing though isn't it?

*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

You know that's an interesting image. Can't say I entirely agree with you on all points. The drone agro thing I didn't know about but I like to keep those dogs of war under my control anyway.

The other day I was told about a friend's corp that was wardecced by an alliance and did some research on that alliance and found that they had something like over 70 decs going at once.

This made me wonder. I put that alliance in contacts to see if they are actually present. My friend meanwhile was purchasing more combat ships to give them what for but when I went about my business, even sending an alt in my corp to Jita to pick up a few things, I never saw any members of this particular alliance.

This also struck me as odd. I was under the impression that the usual "way of things" was for corps full of bittervets to grief noobs out of the game by deccing their corps and harvesting them. But who was this "no show" alliance and why? What's was the point?

After much pondering, I could only arrive at a conclusion that your picture there reminded me of: lowsec and nullsec must be THAT BAD that there are alliances and corps that do lots of decs solely for the purpose of being able to fly around highsec and get PVP. Highsec has no blobs (unless you are in Eudema but that's another story), no bubbles, and "kill everything that moves" gameplay is not so much the norm, meaning if you want to go from point A to B looking for war targets, you have a chance to get there and/or it won't take you "forever" looking out for bubble camps and dictors and such.

And I would tend to think that this is more about the issues of travel in lowsec and nullsec and blobs than any other factor. The notion of "oh they just want easy kills in highsec PVP", the lament of the so-called carebear, does not appear to match up to the cost and effort of having scores of wardecs going on like that. It's not as if they, on the deccing side, are going to be profiting from this endeavor either.

Where your image fits in, IMO, is this: people want pew. You don't really get as much of that in a manner that was as fun as it used to be in low and null. So people are doing everything they can to get it in highsec, from shooting MTUs, agro fu, ganking, and all that other good stuff. But a lot of people who are not on the PVP side are also not in low or null for the same reasons. The lines get blurred even: how many nullseccers are running highsec incursion alts?

So the problem I think is not so much grounded in griefers and carebears but mechanics that make getting simple PVP more difficult. A lot of people labor under the idea that lowsec and nullsec is PVPer heaven but many who are into PVP find it just as irritating to be out there as would some miner trying to get nullsec ore without being in an alliance. Heck what do we find in deep nullsec past the bubble camps, gank pipelines, and intel channels? Farmers.

So I understand the motive of the image but I think the issue is more complex. "Simple pew" is going to be as hard to get as simple let me rake in ISK leave me alone". This was never an FPS game and it's not a single player game, but I think that the mechanics and "way of things" in the game has bottlenecked a lot of players. Your list make me think that CCP is trying to protect one kind of trapped player from the other kind. Hamhanded perhaps. Unless some things change significantly about the way things are outside of highsec then the changes you listed are mere sops or bandaids. I honestly think the existing other problems are coming to a head now because such changes were not, nor felt to be, needed in the past but the "way of things" (blue donut, blobs, etc.) are what have gotten worse over the years.


BTW you forgot "abandon/blue the wrecks" though maybe it was a good idea to share loot when it was implemented I knew it was the end of ninja salvaging. TEARS dropped off the map since. Now there's miner bumping.

Making the highsec NPC corp boosting orca even better relative to the nullsec options.

Well it's fine I guess... no wait, you mean actually removing boosts from orca, that would nerf highsec mining and we can't have that

PVP nerfed hard? There has not been a single nerf to PVP in EVE, ever.

No, I would leave mining boosts on Orca as well. Or remove mining boosts along with combat boosts and give Rorqual and Orca new roles. I don't know. I think mining needs a total overhaul. If mining were made into a more active and competitive activity then it would balance itself out across security regions. More players in hisec from more numerous and unaffiliated factions = more competition in hisec.

Hisec doesn't necessarily need straight up RISK to balance out its rewards. Suicide ganks and awoxing and whatnot are lame and nonsensical methods of balance for hisec and its playerbase. And the rewards themselves don't necessarily need to be straight up nerfed. Just up the competition.

To my mind though, the ability to name it yourself is a big enough benefit. Take a look at the "benefits" of a corp. For the standard line-grunt, what do you really get? Corp hanger? You wont have roles for that. POS? You wont have roles for that. Corp Wallet? You definitely wont have roles for that. Tax is the only benefit a line-member will get access to out the gate, and this only applies to Mission Runners, market traders and miners don't care as it doesn't effect them, and outside of a one-man tax-haven corp, actual working corps wont run a 0% anyway (that POS needs fuelling), so you don't get the "full" benefit of this in an organised corp. No, for the standard joe-capsuleer, the biggest, stand-out benefit of being in a corp is being a part of something, and having an identity. And oddly enough, the biggest dis-incentive for disbanding and reforming in the face of a war is pride in your corp/identity.

In one fell swoop, CCP are giving players the biggest benefit of corp-creation, minus the one "threat" to the sort of players who want to be in a corp for that reason. Maybe I'm over-stating it, but I genuinely see absolutely no benefit to the standard line highsec player to be in a player corp (that isn't a one-man tax haven) with the creation of social corps.

Apparently the goons can no longer afford to wardec other player corp - alliances should they wish to.

Hello Kitty Online indeed.

My point is not so much the ability or not to get at players that will do everything in their power to avoid a war; I agree, they will still have been untargetable regardless.

My concern is the number of currently targettable players who, through this change, will no longer be. I am talking about members of highsec corps, without POS's, but with enough pride (don't discount it, pride is a big reason for otherwise irrational choices) or self-respect in their name/identity, that they currently would not disband under a wardec. Every single one of these corps has no sensible reason not to transform themselves in to a social corp, to retain the feature they want (name and identity), but with the added safety as a freebie. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is an insignificantly small demographic, but maybe it isn't, and maybe this change is going to significantly reduce the amount of viable targets in Highsec for a corp that fights its wars there.

Responses in italics.