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Missile Damage
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Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-02-10 10:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Auduin Ituin
I'm trying to understand missile damage..

So, based on http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage the formula for missile damage done is basedamage*min(1,TargetSigRadius/ExplosionRadius(TargetSigRadius/ExplosionRadius*ExplosionVelocity/TargetVelocity)ln(DamageReductionFactor)/ln(5.5))

So based on that, the below Tengu fit doing damage to itself with AB off while TPd would do 553 dps, according to http://web2.0calc.com/. Formula would be 423.756*min(1,354/180.75(354/180.75*102/213)ln(4.5)/ln(5.5))*5/3.831, with the last bit (*5/3.831) being amount of launchers/ROF, since the original formula only calculates one launcher. So we have 553, that's over 530 (the max before damage application maths), so full damage is applied.

So I thought "well, the larger the sig radius the more damage, right? Even if the extra damage isn't applied". But apparently this is wrong, because 423.756*min(1,27831/180.75(27831/180.75*102/94)ln(4.5)/ln(5.5))*5/3.831 is the formula against a TPd Nyx.. But the result is still 553? So how is the additional damage calculated, or am I inputting the data wrong and that's why it's the same result?

[Tengu, New Setup 2]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Reactor Control Unit II

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Scourge Fury Heavy Missile x1
Scourge Precision Heavy Missile x1
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2 - 2015-02-10 10:32:11 UTC
You seem to think about it the wrong way round. You don't do extra (on top of base) damage to big targets, you do less (below base) damage to small ones.

Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-02-10 10:35:59 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
You seem to think about it the wrong way round. You don't do extra (on top of base) damage to big targets, you do less (below base) damage to small ones.

I thought it worked both ways, with the limit down being 0 and up being whatever the max damage is (missile damage*number of launchers/rof). But before being brought down to that number, it could infinitely expand as along as the target sig radius keeps going up.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#4 - 2015-02-10 11:21:13 UTC
No, max damage is max damage. There are some small factors that can make you go above max (in case of turrets it's wrecking shots) but other than that you can only do less than stated dps.
Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-02-10 12:00:59 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
No, max damage is max damage. There are some small factors that can make you go above max (in case of turrets it's wrecking shots) but other than that you can only do less than stated dps.
I'm not talking about doing more than max damage. I'm talking about the pre-reduction (to the "max" damage) damage. If this isn't true (the calculation will always equal the "max" damage), then there's something wrong with how I input the equation, and I don't know what it is.
Auduin Ituin
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-02-10 12:19:10 UTC
Well, I think I've figured out how I'm doing the equation wrong. But now the calculator isn't accepting min as a valid function, so I can't make sure.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-02-10 13:21:15 UTC
min means the smallest number inside the brackets following it.

Art of Explosions
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-02-10 17:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
min means the smallest number inside the brackets following it.

OP look inside the min() parenthesis

You see three terms separate by commas. A one, the signature radius ratio, and the signature radius ratio multiplied by the velocity ratio (with an exponent). The smallest of these terms is used to calculate the percentage of total damage applied. So if either of the second two terms falls below one, you will apply less than full damage.

What does this mean? Well, in the second term, you can see that if the target signature radius is less than the explosion radius of your missile, you will apply less than full damage. However, if the signature radius is larger than the explosion radius the ratio will be greater than one and the first term will be selected. One times your "paper" dps means you will apply your maximum damage.

Now check out the third term. You can see that if the explosion velocity of your missile is lower than the target's speed the velocity ratio will be less than one. Raising this to an exponential makes it even lower (so you want the exponential term to be small!). However, you are also multiplying by the signature radius ratio. This means, if the signature radius of the target is larger than the explosion radius (sig radius ratio is greater than one) you can actually correct for the reduction in damage caused by the speed of the target. But remember, since you are taking the minimum term your damage is capped at the base damage. If the sig radius ratio is less than one you are further reducing your damage.

Don't forget about the damage reduction factor in the exponent. Basically this depends on the type of missile, and the lower the better. Any damage reduction that is caused by the velocity ratio is further compounded by the damage reduction factor. This is why you will often see people using faction HAMs and torpedos instead of t2 - because their application is much better to smaller targets.

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Titan's Lament
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-02-10 22:32:50 UTC
Yep you always get your max damage mitigate by the smallest of either (1.0) OR (sig equation) OR (Speed Equation) meaning if your issue is always sig or is always speed reducing the other factor will do absolutely nothing to help you at all.

The comment about faction missiles above is significant. In fact Faction Cruise will quite often apply more damage than T2 Fury.