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smuggling goods - expand the gameplay

Author
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-02-08 22:17:21 UTC
Currently the most common view of smuggling is running capsuleer drugs through high security space. But as it stands it's just a gamble at each gate. That isn't gameplay, that's just rolling the dice.

So how would we expand this? Well Eve is a game of consequences and your choices matter so at the bare minimum we should factor in faction standings and perhaps overall standing into that percentage. Those with higher overall standing would have a better chance of making it through a gate without being found with contraband. This however is still something that forces players to roll the dice, though the dice may be more in their favor.

Smuggler holds could be added to the game to further push things. With skills attached to them they would act in a unique way. They would be a module, preferably a low slot and would add an additional cargo hold to the ship as a percentage of the ships overall cargo space. Objects put into smuggler holds would be much harder to find both by factions AND players utilizing ship/cargo scanners.

How would this work?
A smuggler hold would display as a different low slot module. Either cargo expander, internal nano fibers, inertial stabs or even armor platting. Skills would likely boost the effect of these or allow players to choose what module they falsely represent. This could also simply be displayed via what meta type smuggler hold you have. Smart smugglers could alter their ship fit to further make this look convincing.

How to catch a smuggler.
Their skills and the meta of the smuggler hold are the defense in this case, while cargo/ship scanners are the attack. Depending on the skills with these scanners and their meta level would allow a % chance of discovering that a ship is using a smuggler hold. Those with low skills or meta modules against someone with low to moderate skills for smuggler holds would still see a disguised smuggler hold module, however if they were to look close (likely at module info requiring those scanning to actually manually look) it would mention that either something looks off or straight that it is a smuggler hold. With high skills against a low skilled smuggler you could likely see straight through the disguise. If you discover that they have a smuggler hold in this way a cargo scanner will directly see into the hold. With only a partial find (using the info window to discover it) the cargo scanner will have a very low chance of finding anything hidden within, but if it did it would be mixed with regular cargo contents making it difficult to determine if it's actually smuggled goods or just something the player is holding normally.

Finally how to avoid getting caught at gates.
Given that it is still a random chance to get caught by NPC's even with a smuggler hold and decent skills/standings, there should be something you can do if you get caught. This could be represented via a mini game. This however is something I am unsure of how to approach. CCP did a decent job with the hacking mini game so perhaps something similar could work here. Then again with new skills and modules to help reduce the chance of getting caught it might not be needed as that could be enough defense.

With that said I feel however that players should further be able to affect their chances at gates with customs officers either through bribing or gaining a global suspect tag if they choose to try and gate crash. Even gaining some kind of rapport with customs officials either negative or positive through some kind of interaction. This could apply for those hunting smugglers as well by having some sort of smuggler report system if a player were to find another player with illegal cargo.
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2015-02-08 22:20:56 UTC
Get a blockade runner, smuggle all the drugs you want.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-02-08 22:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyra Gerie
BR's are not immune to NPC cargo scans. Further flying a BR is announcing that you have things you don't want found where as this idea opens up a whole new section of game play for other ships. Hell they could receive a heavy bonus to this which could be as good or better game play wise then their current cargo scanner immunity.

Also smuggling could simply be the act of moving valuable cargo through areas where ganking is common.
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2015-02-08 23:22:20 UTC
Lyra Gerie wrote:
BR's are not immune to NPC cargo scans. Further flying a BR is announcing that you have things you don't want found where as this idea opens up a whole new section of game play for other ships. Hell they could receive a heavy bonus to this which could be as good or better game play wise then their current cargo scanner immunity.

Also smuggling could simply be the act of moving valuable cargo through areas where ganking is common.

Obvously, if you're smuggling, you don't particularly care about the law, so why would NPCs that can't catch you bother you? Last I knew, carrying contraband only effected your faction standings, not your sec status. There's no worry about Concord in smuggling, less worry about players in highsec, and I'd simply ponit and laugh at the BR pilot who lost one to FacPo. BRs are hard to catch when fitted poorly, and even slipperier when properly fit. They are often used in nullsec to transport cargo that won't fit in an interceptor through areas where there might be hostiles. They're probably used just as much, if not more, in lowsec where you have less worries about running into bubble camps.
Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
#5 - 2015-02-08 23:29:37 UTC
How about a Shielded Cargo Container? It would be 2,000m3 on the outside and 500m3 on the inside (very thick lead shielding!) and reduce the chances of a scan detecting the contents by some percentage. Maybe ~95%ish.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-02-08 23:31:26 UTC
I was under the impression that if you got caught at a gate they either tackle and kill your ship or you give up the cargo and pay a fine.

Overall however this is more a mechanic for HS then low or null which is generally what BRs are built more for. And typically if you are smuggling through a lower sec like .5 where ganking is common it would be considered smuggling to bring say, deadspace modules through. We've all seen kill mails of ships with FW implants that get lost in these types of systems as well as transports and freighters. This would be an alternative.

Further even if it is illegal drugs your smuggling it opens up the market for them in HS as players could actually have a chance at transporting them around without losing them or having to skill into something as focused as a BR.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#7 - 2015-02-08 23:39:43 UTC
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
#8 - 2015-02-08 23:47:18 UTC
admiral root wrote:
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.

Hmm. Cargo Scanning someone and finding contraband gives you DED sanctioned kill-rights on them...
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-08 23:51:19 UTC
Colette Kassia wrote:
admiral root wrote:
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.

Hmm. Cargo Scanning someone and finding contraband gives you DED sanctioned kill-rights on them...


Even just adjusting it so that you get a global suspect timer would be a better option then what is currently in the game. However it doesn't help players trying to smuggle goods under the nose of other players though.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#10 - 2015-02-09 00:31:58 UTC
Colette Kassia wrote:
admiral root wrote:
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.

Hmm. Cargo Scanning someone and finding contraband gives you DED sanctioned kill-rights on them...


Give the player the option to pay a fine and have their stuff confiscated, or a limited engagement.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2015-02-09 05:52:09 UTC
Just change it so the NPC's have to lock you first then scan you.
That makes it so fast ships that are alert can actually 'smuggle' by running the gates.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2015-02-09 15:12:59 UTC
admiral root wrote:
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.


Would support.

Customs NPCs are completely pointless and totally ineffective. The standings loss and fines are laughable. I smuggle drugs all day into major market hubs, get scanned maybe 1% of the time. With a BR and proper fit+tactics, it is quite literally impossible to get caught.

I don't think BRs are OP. But there needs to be better consequences if you get scanned, like a suspect timer. If you run from the cops, it makes sense that you are a suspect.

An insta-locking inty is just about the only thing that has a chance of catching a BR outside of nulsec. And I'm way more concerned with getting caught by players than NPCs, especially as I'm landing on station or undocking.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#13 - 2015-02-09 15:57:17 UTC
I would take care of modules. I proposed a tree of them recently. Smuggling could become a real profession.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386015

Also LP-Stores of Syndicate, Thukker Tribe, ORE and maybe Interbus could get some new items:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348950

There are 2 ways possible:
1. no prestated immunity against scanning, but ship boni for scan avoidance. (comparable to warp stab / warp blocker)
There are Syndicate modules to increase scan immunity and Fed. Customs cargo scanner which can beat them.

2. Small Syndicate ships (frigate and cruiser size) which have unscannable cargos too.
These ships should be fast but weak in defense.
Other big ships might be scannable but extremely hard to kill (heavy defense, weak offense)

In order to avoid the use of gates, very small ships (frig size, extremely low sig radius) can have a builtin "Syndicate Small Covert OPs Jumpdrive" using fuel, affected by fatigue. Only frigate sized mini haulers can use it. They are not affected by jumpdrive jammers.

Also "Syndicate audit log secure self-destructable containers" could be a solution. Cargo capacity should be 60% of container size in m³.
- +2 scan avoidance or unscannable
- can be anchored in space
- a failed hacking attempt or shoot it will result in an explosion what destroys all content and might give collateral damage at 5km range
- if dropped from cargo they will keep closed

There are a lot more ideas in order to make smuggling more interesting.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-02-09 22:10:20 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
admiral root wrote:
There was talk years ago of getting rid of the customs NPCs and replacing them with player tools. I hope they'll get around to doing that some day.


Would support.

Customs NPCs are completely pointless and totally ineffective. The standings loss and fines are laughable. I smuggle drugs all day into major market hubs, get scanned maybe 1% of the time. With a BR and proper fit+tactics, it is quite literally impossible to get caught.

I don't think BRs are OP. But there needs to be better consequences if you get scanned, like a suspect timer. If you run from the cops, it makes sense that you are a suspect.

An insta-locking inty is just about the only thing that has a chance of catching a BR outside of nulsec. And I'm way more concerned with getting caught by players than NPCs, especially as I'm landing on station or undocking.



The problem with this is it only gives a pinnacle of smuggling without any lead up to. So while they should increase consequences and player tools they also need to focus on tools that let players build up to BR's for smuggling. Also BR's in this case pronounce exactly what you are doing and the option should be there for a more stealthy option using regular ships possibly fitted for smuggling as well.

Madeleine Lemmont wrote:
I would take care of modules. I proposed a tree of them recently. Smuggling could become a real profession.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=386015

Also LP-Stores of Syndicate, Thukker Tribe, ORE and maybe Interbus could get some new items:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348950

There are 2 ways possible:
1. no prestated immunity against scanning, but ship boni for scan avoidance. (comparable to warp stab / warp blocker)
There are Syndicate modules to increase scan immunity and Fed. Customs cargo scanner which can beat them.

2. Small Syndicate ships (frigate and cruiser size) which have unscannable cargos too.
These ships should be fast but weak in defense.
Other big ships might be scannable but extremely hard to kill (heavy defense, weak offense)

In order to avoid the use of gates, very small ships (frig size, extremely low sig radius) can have a builtin "Syndicate Small Covert OPs Jumpdrive" using fuel, affected by fatigue. Only frigate sized mini haulers can use it. They are not affected by jumpdrive jammers.

Also "Syndicate audit log secure self-destructable containers" could be a solution. Cargo capacity should be 60% of container size in m³.
- +2 scan avoidance or unscannable
- can be anchored in space
- a failed hacking attempt or shoot it will result in an explosion what destroys all content and might give collateral damage at 5km range
- if dropped from cargo they will keep closed

There are a lot more ideas in order to make smuggling more interesting.


I like these ideas for the most part though again focusing on specific ships to smuggle makes it obvious what you are up to which kind of goes against what smuggling is about. I don't know entirely about letting them use their own cynos as well because they could be abused, especially in high sec. As for the containers, what purpose would they serve? Just players doing random drops in open space? Why would they do that instead of just taking it to a destination station?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2015-02-10 04:57:19 UTC
Lyra Gerie wrote:
BR's are not immune to NPC cargo scans. Further flying a BR is announcing that you have things you don't want found where as this idea opens up a whole new section of game play for other ships. Hell they could receive a heavy bonus to this which could be as good or better game play wise then their current cargo scanner immunity.

Also smuggling could simply be the act of moving valuable cargo through areas where ganking is common.



then it's a good thing BRs don't have to use gates...
Madeleine Lemmont
Ars Vivendi
#16 - 2015-02-10 10:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Madeleine Lemmont
Lyra Gerie wrote:
I like these ideas for the most part though again focusing on specific ships to smuggle makes it obvious what you are up to which kind of goes against what smuggling is about...
IMHO Syndicate ships should be 1 part of a solution. Common ships can use Syndicate or Interbus or ORE modules in order to become faster, harder to catch and harder to scan.

Smuggling needs you to be fast and nearly invisible... means to act hidden. Of curse there are ships which can cloak already.
Harder to catch also means low sig radius. Harder to scan means for instance "armor" plates what reduce sig radius or increase scan hardness instead of increase armor HP. I could call it a "Stealth Armor".
Lyra Gerie wrote:
As for the containers, what purpose would they serve? Just players doing random drops in open space? Why would they do that instead of just taking it to a destination station?
Containers should be, what they already are. You can carry them from point A to B.

Containers can be dropped, anchored and stored in cargo and hangar. They are a special variation of "Secure Audit Log Containers".
So you can fill them and seal them with a password. As long as they are sealed, they provide a kind of scan immunity.

If you get caught and shot, the container may drop from your cargo as it is. If anybody hacks it and fail, it will explode. If he pass hacking, he will get access to its content.
These containers are made for use in frigate sized haulers. Thias means they are available up to 1000m³ in size and 600m³ cargo capacity.

Of curse you could load them in common racial haulers too.
If you use "armored stealth containers" you may be flagged suspect by customs, if they take aware of it.
---
And yes. I would like, if players take over some security tasks from local government and racial navy. But it should not be the only option, because NPC could be more motivated to catch smugglers... ;)