EVE General Discussion

Then what are you talking about?

listen man, i dont know how they do it in your village, but where im from, discussion is the exchange of ideas, not the constant bashing of others opinions by you, followed by a pause to reflect on how right you are.
you accuse me of childish tantrum throwing - just because i asked for your opinion?
at which you responded with several semi-angry walltexts about lawers and other perposterous things? and Im childish, right, right.

and after all that, its not even clear what you criticize me about, was it the word play on the "go do something else" phrase, i dont even know, so many words and you didnt even manage to make that clear. I like to be straightforward in my communications, all i got from you was a vague but firm disagreement in anything i posted.

i dont know what you think you are doing here, but its certainly not conversation, its cryptic criticism about fine points and wordplay, seems to me just for the sake of argument.

i feel i have been trolled into this, i wanted no part in it and I can assure you, you are not going to manage dragging me into this kind of thing again. I make alot of mistakes, but only once.

i also hope all my posts to you will be deleted, they deserve to be and i regret making them. they where irelevant to all and any subjects, an excersice in futility. I apologize to the moderators for letting myself get dragged into this.

Women play Eve...trust me..and some play it quite well. Though there is no doubt Eve is a varitable sausage fest...but we are here. Still though, the pecentage of women players in eve remains a low 5-10% tops. Some women like gaming...some don't. I, for one, love eve and wouldn't trade it for anything. As for the way men behave....there are always "those one's"..but for the most part, They have all been adult and civil. Besides, I can troll just as well as they can if need be. The thing is, Eve requires the good old HTFU philosophy. I know quite a few women in game and a lot of times they are as tough, if not tougher than some of the men. ...women being less inclined to PvP? I wouldn't say that at all...every single one I know is a PvPer...not one is a miner or carebear.

when someone disagrees with you, you at least deserve to know why. please read all our posts and tell me what you make of it.
you decide if i have been trolled or not. i have disagreed with alot of people, even in this thread. See if i was civil or not, hearing each other out and at worst agreeing to disagree. After all, i never said im a victim, i deserve it for engaging in pointless backtalk with no hint of actual argument.

you dropped your mic. . . i didn't see you pick it back up. jus sayin'

Hi boys

Iyokus Patrouette, thanks for commenting. I recognize and appreciate your sentiments toward player equality. I think your attitude toward indiscriminate murder is on par with all reasonable expectations of capsuleers throughout New Eden. In fact, I applaud your tenacity and I would hope discrimination in the literal sense is in fact a thing of the past, at least in those areas where we can help it.

(And coming up, here is why I quoted your response. I don't mean to call you out. You've been helpful and you commented most recently:) But I am concerned that for whatever reason, you are intentionally misinterpreting my question to make your own point that you don't feel like a gender discrepancy in Eve Online is a problem - and you are certainly entitled to that opinion - but to dismiss this entire thread as if my question is the problem would, itself, be a symptom of the problem you're referring to, if such a problem were to really exist (which I hear you saying it doesn't, and I respect your opinion and I recognize the spirit in which you said it and I don't think you're wrong).

Once more, just to reiterate:

I do not, as many of you have suggested, "mean anything" by the question. And again, to reiterate, I am looking specifically for research-based, or at least science-oriented - whether it be social science, cognitive science, computer science - answers. Without some basis in observable facts, we can't really have this discussion as the 15 pages of dialog, much of which was deleted by the ISD, has extensively proven.

And again, once more, I am looking for answers to the question of why is it that - within the population of people playing Eve Online, small, rich and rewarding as it is - don't more women choose to play Eve Online?

In this type of conversation, the kind of answers I'm looking for would be something short and to the point without too much personal anecdotes, which don't qualify as evidence, however interesting and informative to your life they might have been. Here's something I was thinking about, just as an example and maybe we can talk about it:

I am looking at a 2008 study I saw recently in the Duke Law Journal published by Phillip Stoup, entitled The Development and Failure of Social Norms in Second Life in which Stoup argues that in many virtual worlds such as Second Life, what he calls "positive social norms" break down without intense regulation in the form of community moderation. I think it goes without saying that such regulations would not be in the spirit of Eve's hands-off approach by CCP, and a sentiment echoed throughout this forum (and a sentiment I agree with wholeheartedly) is that any attempt at community regulation on CCP's part would be grossly inappropriate. But while I think that's not a solution, I also believe that because of Eve Online's noteworthy complexity, the reasons for fewer women gamers would have to be much more complex than that. Perhaps even societal?

That's the kind of discussion I am trying to have - something based on research and evidence - and if anyone wants to have that talk, that's why I started this thread. The extreme, politically charged rhetoric being used here has no place in the sensitive and important discussion I tried to facilitate.

In this type of conversation, we feed each other constructively, riffing on mutual curiosities rather than shutting down the discussion before it can even get started.

I'm quoting that

Hum. Sorry to say, but I think your experience with MMO gaming may be a bit limited if you think all this is only still in existence in EVE. I see it in region chat in just about every game I currently play, and have experienced it in many voice chats. I mostly play PVP games, where it's more pronounced, but it's in PVE games too.

sounds very interesting. can you be abit more specific on what the "positive social norms" are, and what is meant by "intense regulation"?

I am asking, because if we are to take the online society to be an image of the real one, some measure of "the rule of law" needs to be implemented. and thats not necessarily a bad thing, its mandatory, like law in actual society. With that in mind, it would be great to know what the author means by "Intense regulation".

Intense, as in some compared to none, or as in heavy policing of all aspects and activities?