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Dev blog: Corp Little Things & Friendly Fire Control

First post
Author
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2015-02-09 20:30:39 UTC
Mynxee wrote:
Those are some really helpful changes...and *sigh* that last image...such a promise of more good stuff to come! After so many years of thinking these kinds of changes would never be addressed, it's great to see them getting some love.



Big smileCoolBig smileCoolBig smile

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#62 - 2015-02-09 20:33:47 UTC
CCP Purple Tentacle is up to no good. I have that on good authority. NEVER grant that one any roles.
Triffton Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-02-09 20:42:39 UTC
I don't know if this has been addressed yet, but this is the Internet. We don't read four pages of thread discussion anyway!

My question is, how is this going to affect wanted green-on-green "hostility"? Example:
When moving stuff (ore, etc), we use a corpmate in a frigate to Web our freighters for faster alignment. With ff flagged as Illegal for the corp, this would trigger crime watch and CONCORD, correct?
Also, would this affect in-corp logi support?

> In chasing the unknown, we discover ourselves.

Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#64 - 2015-02-09 21:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shailagh
Currently- If a corp is at war and an out-of-corp dude uses logi to rep, they get a suspect flag.
What if FF is off now, corp is at war and even an in corpmate uses logi? Suspect?

Also, if im in a risk-adverse FF-Illegal corp and convince a guy to start repping my frigate. I then shoot him (causing concords wrath) does this also concord him for repping a criminal? This is how it currently works, so guess it can still happen cuz now shooting him is a criminal act? This sounds cool
Triffton Ambraelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2015-02-09 21:25:58 UTC
An obvious, though very restrictive, workaround is the Duel system. Effective, yes, but a pain in the ass. And it's truly only useful for this purpose in a very limited set of circumstances.

> In chasing the unknown, we discover ourselves.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#66 - 2015-02-09 23:11:09 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Just as I asked at EvE_NT.

Can we have a tax associated with this switch being active?
If you want it to be illegal to shoot corp members, then you should be paying Concord at least 10% tax.


Not a 10% tax. Remember that with wardecs you are paying for targets. The cost goes up as the corp size increases. Same thing for anti-wardeccing your own corp, which is how this festure works.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#67 - 2015-02-09 23:30:22 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
The default status of any setting says a lot about the developers' intentions - and Eve was originally developed with that setting on.
Saying that suggests that we also intend you to name your corporation after yourself & have a 0% tax rate! Big smile

In all seriousness though I do take your point regarding this, it's just that extrapolating developer intent from the default option is a dangerous game. We expect that many corps will take advantage of the option of concord intervention, whereas many others will want to have the convenience of legal friendly fire. Either option is fine with us, as long as we're sure the consequences of either option are clear.



So, here's my idea - why not have a series of prompts when setting up a corp which pop up like windows when you are installing a program/app? A tickybox can be missed - a window which pops up, with an explanation, requiring an input and a decision by the budding CEO, is going to be more effective at making it an explicit choice than leaving it as a passive pre-selected choice.

Would you like to have an AWOXing corp, Y/N?

Quote:
invite spam

Secondly, I grok the whole send an invite thing - it will be useful for recruiters to send a quick invite to a prospective recruit. HOWEVER, can you please, like duel invitess, put in a tickybox which allows us to turn invites off? People are going to use this to send unsolicited invite spam to characters and clog up your day with notifications and bullschnitzel.

Quote:
HTFU etc

Finally, there's a lot of people complaining about the AWOX-off feature. Get over it, this is a good thing(tm) and will improve corp lives all round.

You may think that AWOX-on is stupid and no one would join the corp. However, we will be keeping AWOX-on because you cannot web your freighters off gates in highsec if there's CONCORD intervention.
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2015-02-09 23:43:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Justa Hunni
Soko99 wrote:


Now if it's a bran spanking clean toon, then the guy obviously put a lot of effort into making that character so he's just as entitled to be able to AWOX as the guy that is trying do defend himself from it.

but that's just my .02 cents.


Yeah that whole 15 minutes to create a clean account and toon is just SOOOO much work. Roll Ever check out the "10 hour hero"?
http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero?page=0%2C3

Oh just noticed you're a Goon. Yeah no agenda in that post Shocked
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#69 - 2015-02-09 23:53:09 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Currently- If a corp is at war and an out-of-corp dude uses logi to rep, they get a suspect flag.
What if FF is off now, corp is at war and even an in corpmate uses logi? Suspect?

Also, if im in a risk-adverse FF-Illegal corp and convince a guy to start repping my frigate. I then shoot him (causing concords wrath) does this also concord him for repping a criminal? This is how it currently works, so guess it can still happen cuz now shooting him is a criminal act? This sounds cool

Does repping a corp mate in a war fight currently cause suspect?

And as for your second example, if his safety is green or yellow, then his repping stops. Since that is how it currently works. If he has a red safety for some reason, then yes he'll get concorded, but you could have just convinced him to shoot you instead and saved your own ship in that case.
Meta2
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2015-02-10 00:17:26 UTC
Sounds like some more useless changes... how about some useful changes?

1. Even my Buick Lucerne has lo-jack... and a security system that prevents unauthorized access.

How about starships from the future having the same thing? Prefix code anyone? Sure make it hackable by people with the hacking skill but no one not even in the future wouldn't have a lock on their ship.

2. Make anyone with fuel access to towers have the option to receive e-mails... regardless of what role.
I enjoyed losing my billions of isk Marauder in the wormhole because I received no notice the tower was low on fuel and the corporation hadn't given me fuel rights so I never received any notice. They said I could of used the redneck method of checking the tower but whatever.

3. Alliance Bookmarks - Their time has come! I complained bitterly and years ago we got corporate bookmarks.

4. FFS fixing the access roles SHOULD BE TOP PRIORITY above all the rest of this.

There my rant is satisfied.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#71 - 2015-02-10 00:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
For everyone talking about web-slinging freighters:

Remember you can always have the freighter pilot accept a duel from the webber. With an active duel, you can keep the safety set to green and still web your corp mate's freighter. Once you web the freighter, you will have a limited engagement going and the ability to safely web the freighter will persist, as long as you actually web the freighter once in awhile.

Yes, it is less convenient, but that is the cost of setting FF off.

You can also use duels for tank testing.

Also: With FF off you can still remote rep corp-mates, it is still legal. In fact, right now under present rules, you can fly up to any random person (non-criminal) and remote rep them, without penalty. (It can really freak them out.) Just keep the safety set to green to prevent any accidents. (Oops, I activated the negative repair module. Oh, look there is CONCORD. What they do...... oh.)

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#72 - 2015-02-10 01:42:46 UTC
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2015-02-10 02:10:28 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.


So you'll be recruiting brand new players left and right after the 17th, correct?
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-02-10 02:37:50 UTC
Justa Hunni wrote:
Soko99 wrote:


Now if it's a bran spanking clean toon, then the guy obviously put a lot of effort into making that character so he's just as entitled to be able to AWOX as the guy that is trying do defend himself from it.

but that's just my .02 cents.


Yeah that whole 15 minutes to create a clean account and toon is just SOOOO much work. Roll Ever check out the "10 hour hero"?
http://www.themittani.com/features/eve-scams-schemes-10-hour-hero?page=0%2C3

Oh just noticed you're a Goon. Yeah no agenda in that post Shocked


Just cause I'm a goon doesn't mean I AWOX.. still it was part of the game that added risk and made people learn to trust each other.

Also.. what shiny ships do you intend to AWOX with that 10 hour toon? People AWOX for the glory, awoxing a t1 fitted cruiser isn't going to make the news.




Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#75 - 2015-02-10 04:07:34 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.


So you'll be recruiting brand new players left and right after the 17th, correct?


Lmao god its so funny ccp thinks this is gonna make corps recruit noobs therefor increasing retention== money

Wardecs are the broken mechanic you are looking for devs.

FIX WARS
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2015-02-10 04:59:38 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.


So you'll be recruiting brand new players left and right after the 17th, correct?


Lmao god its so funny ccp thinks this is gonna make corps recruit noobs therefor increasing retention== money

Wardecs are the broken mechanic you are looking for devs.

FIX WARS


A) Shhhh.....

B)"fixing" wars wont make a difference
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2015-02-10 05:02:41 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.


So you'll be recruiting brand new players left and right after the 17th, correct?

My understanding was that this was supposed to enhance the ability to securely recruit, not the desire to do so in all cases. Have you determined otherwise?
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#78 - 2015-02-10 05:11:03 UTC
I would be pretty much fine with the ability to turn off player corporation friendly fire, if there were significant drawbacks. Such as, perhaps, the inability to join an alliance, the inability to anchor corporate structures, the inability to have more than a certain number of members, etc... or even all of the above.

However, I am extremely put off by the fact that there are quite literally no drawbacks at all to disabling friendly fire among corpmates. Flying in a player corporation with other people has always been an exercise in trust, one of the more significant aspects of which is the fact that you aren't wantonly blowing each other out of the sky for a minor profit. It's not as if highsec AWOXing is all that common, but until now it could happen to almost anyone, and was one of the unique challenges EVE presents to its players, challenging them to improve themselves and their play to succeed.

I'm sure I'll be dismissed as a piratical bittervet who hates newbies and fun, but the truth of the matter is the game is really losing something important here. Soon free-fire between corp members may well be a thing of the past, any degree of required care or meaningfulness in the practice of highsec recruiting gone, yet another formerly game-defining characteristic of EVE that future players may look back on in confusion, unable to imagine the advantages that came along with such a system and unaware of what they're missing out on.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#79 - 2015-02-10 08:28:22 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
I would be pretty much fine with the ability to turn off player corporation friendly fire, if there were significant drawbacks. Such as, perhaps, the inability to join an alliance, the inability to anchor corporate structures, the inability to have more than a certain number of members, etc... or even all of the above.

Thanks for your tears contribution, your level of pain in the rear shows in how much you wanted to gut every good change in eve.

Iam Widdershins wrote:
However, I am extremely put off by the fact that there are quite literally no drawbacks at all to disabling friendly fire among corpmates. Flying in a player corporation with other people has always been an exercise in trust, one of the more significant aspects of which is the fact that you aren't wantonly blowing each other out of the sky for a minor profit. It's not as if highsec AWOXing is all that common, but until now it could happen to almost anyone, and was one of the unique challenges EVE presents to its players, challenging them to improve themselves and their play to succeed.

This change is not in its own league, it's a fix to dumbmode awoxing, and it can't be judged out of context of dumbmode awoxing.
Within that context, the change is net positive, without a doubt.
If you want to keep your "exercise in trust" you are free to turn FF to legal and keep having it, your "unique challenge EVE presents", as long as you prefer. Who's stopping you?

Iam Widdershins wrote:
I'm sure I'll be dismissed as a piratical bittervet who hates newbies and fun, but the truth of the matter is the game is really losing something important here. Soon free-fire between corp members may well be a thing of the past, any degree of required care or meaningfulness in the practice of highsec recruiting gone, yet another formerly game-defining characteristic of EVE that future players may look back on in confusion, unable to imagine the advantages that came along with such a system and unaware of what they're missing out on.

The only thing the game is losing is dumbmode awoxing. It was not game-defining, unless you were even more risk-averse than average suicide wanker (is that even possible?), in which case, eve is not the game for you.
If you think dumbmode awoxing and safari in newbie corps (you may pretend all you want, but most awoxers were just spamming apps and killing whoever they can, with no regard to ship or age) is "game-defining" or "unique challenge", then indeed, eve will only gain if it drops both those things and you.

Ned Thomas wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Thank you CCPeeps for not giving in to risk-averse AWOXer tears and giving us this change as it were announced.

My FF would never be legal again.


So you'll be recruiting brand new players left and right after the 17th, correct?

I will recruit some people my mates recommended to me, whom I rejected due to lack of trust. Now that I know that orcas and freighters my mates have are safe from one-man certain death scenarios of total dumbmode awox.
I might offer helping hand to genuinely new players, but then again, I always did, and never requested them to join my corp, so no changes here - I guess I'm still not recruiting newbies without recommendation.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Udonor
Doomheim
#80 - 2015-02-10 08:55:59 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
I would be pretty much fine with the ability to turn off player corporation friendly fire, if there were significant drawbacks. Such as, perhaps, the inability to join an alliance, the inability to anchor corporate structures, the inability to have more than a certain number of members, etc... or even all of the above.

However, I am extremely put off by the fact that there are quite literally no drawbacks at all to disabling friendly fire among corpmates. Flying in a player corporation with other people has always been an exercise in trust, one of the more significant aspects of which is the fact that you aren't wantonly blowing each other out of the sky for a minor profit. It's not as if highsec AWOXing is all that common, but until now it could happen to almost anyone, and was one of the unique challenges EVE presents to its players, challenging them to improve themselves and their play to succeed.

I'm sure I'll be dismissed as a piratical bittervet who hates newbies and fun, but the truth of the matter is the game is really losing something important here. Soon free-fire between corp members may well be a thing of the past, any degree of required care or meaningfulness in the practice of highsec recruiting gone, yet another formerly game-defining characteristic of EVE that future players may look back on in confusion, unable to imagine the advantages that came along with such a system and unaware of what they're missing out on.



Totally Agree.


First of all wrongs assumptions. Small Fleets are where socializing occurs NOT corps. Corp membership is irrelevant to fleets and EVE socializing. Most importantly most of the best social groups are fleets with members coming from a variety of player and non-player corps.

IMHO EVE player Corps are merely a quick way to identify fat targets that need shooting. Corps themselves are not social but just blind financial framework that enable special operations like POS and trading connections. No need to go interact just because you are in a corp. Some corps have good fleets but those fleets usually are small cliches that leave a lot of corpmates out or are giant faceless mob of strangers.




This measure practically kills off one of the most well loved ambush scam ganks in EVE.Joining corps then seeking out their most valuable ships and shipment for destruction and looting.

The ability to kill new corpmates with impunity provides an essential opportunity to provide a public service education on why only born-victims fly without PVP being their first and only consideration. Also good remedial training for carebears as to why
they should never trust anyone in EVE that you don't personally know and trust in the real world.

EVE needs more opportunities for "inside" gank jobs and theft, not less. Real life is not fair and EVE should be either.