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Skill system expansion for meaningful consequences and choice.
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#21 - 2015-02-09 22:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
SOL Ranger wrote:


I can't agree with this.

If a veteran sits and chews on level 99 AWU for an additional ~0.2% PG gain for say ~10 days and during that time a new player can gain any number of other skills for a much lower time cost, what's the problem, especially when this relation is highly perpetual, he is in fact permanently gaining the advantage of catching up in total flexibility and usefulness even more than today.


No.

The current system already allows new players to gain a variety of skills at a lower time cost than a vet specialising into the lvl 5 of anything. The mechanic that enables that is exponential training times per level. Not your idea.

SOL Ranger wrote:

In my suggestion that effective distance will become minuscule eventually as a rule as everyone at some point would decide to specialise more and when they do the time cost becomes extreme, down to virtual trivial values in focus training over possibly tens of days.

So instead we get all kinds of pilots able to do all kinds of things and devaluing other pilots who would like to specialise in those areas but the competition is insanely high to do anything worthwhile with it; There is not much use for professionals when anyone can be a professional in anything at the same time, there is nothing to improve in in the current system, this is the fundamental point which causes the problem and why my solution is so well fitting.


Do you know what's better than the effective distance becoming 'miniscule eventually'? Becoming zero much sooner.

So you're saying your idea is so you can become a hyper specialist and better than everyone else in a certain task. Or another way of saying noobs cant easily compete with you, thanks.

SOL Ranger wrote:


If anything the new player has a greater chance of actually catching up in total and relative usefulness as generic scattered training by veterans will be very rare, also in some area of expertise will he perpetually close the gap as the veterans are sitting and wasting huge amounts of time on minuscule benefits on the high end.



No he does not. Why would the vet not have scattered training AND specialisation? He has all the SP the noob has plus more. Why would he not have the same extact SP allocation as the noob plus extra SP in every skill?

Everything you think your idea does about closing the gap between noobs and vets, the current system does better.

Its only in extreme cases (like below) where a noob hyper-specialises where the vet doesnt, that the noob can become stronger in a role. But if they do this they (as you say): 'are sitting and wasting huge amounts of time on minuscule benefits on the high end.'

SOL Ranger wrote:
Creating fits for the masses isn't an argument for anything, you can still create fits for the masses and you still have to regard skill sets just like now, the difference is you cannot just pick every maximum level skill and think that's a reasonable way to define a fit, you actually have to make compromises.

Your average autistic min/maxer has to take into consideration that maximum level skills are not feasible for such planning, but yet some players can and will improve upon those fits; Some things are better off less absolute and only in such systems does genuine choice and consequence reside.


EVE shouldn't be about predefined patterns and absolutes, it should be about grey areas and compromises, at least that is how I see it.


Why is it not an argument? cause you dont like it?

enabling mass fitting is great for QoL. Standardisation of skills allows me to provide fits/doctrines for my peeps and i know because of the standardisation of skills that not only will the doctrine be competitive but it will not take forever for my corp to train into. If everyone has vastly different skills i dont know where i should put the par level at. I can make it low to be more inclusive but where the doctrine will likely be uncompetitive and unpredictable, or i can make it high where hardly anyone can fly it.

Just on fitting alone, if the pars too low i am wasting huge amounts of potential from my players and their equipment. If the par is too high and they cant fly the fit, they have to send me their freaking API and i have to put it into eft to see what i can jury rig for them. Now think of doing that on the day of a fight for potentially hundreds of players.

Some things are better off as non-absolutes, but this is not one of them.

SOL Ranger wrote:

New players gain the exact same mechanic as old players, if anything, the old players are nerfed as their previously perfect skills are no longer perfect and they have to choose what to specialise in, risking to have "wasted" almost all of their other skills, a new player could come in and easily become much more proficient in almost anything as you simply cannot have perfect skills anymore.


This is the extreme example where the noob hyperspecialises to negligible gain. Which the vet could have already done and then some, or chose not to and gained many more skills which, you seem to think, were far more valuable. Either way hes not helped by your idea save for the very specific scenario hes trained into under the assumption the vet hasnt already done the same thing but to a greater degree.

I'm not denying raising the ceiling would create more unique chars and grey areas. But this is not always a good thing. One of the attractive things about eve is that new players can quickly get on an equal footing with vets. And one thing that's so great about that is that i can pick a ship, fit it, and then tell all my crew to train into it with the knowledge that it will be competitive, time resistant (excluding nerfs) and wont take long for even new players to get into.

Still no.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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