These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why don't more women play Eve Online?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jenshae Chiroptera
#201 - 2015-02-09 20:50:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nope, it happened. The last guy that said "hur dur a w0man m8k me a sammich" in fleet with me got a swift podding.
First post of yours in a long time that I have really enjoyed. +1 Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#202 - 2015-02-09 20:55:13 UTC
Kenneth Endashi wrote:
BTW, this is not a conversation about how to change Eve. We are just freely exchanging ideas here, people.

Not really. You're just complaining that there aren't many women at EVE and grasping at straws as to why this might be.
Nobody is offering any practical solutions to what they perceive to be the problem. But that's not surprising considering who this is coming from.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#203 - 2015-02-09 20:55:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Its not CCP I wonder about, it's the people who obviously don't like EVE how it is and think "it could be better if we kill everything about it that is unique on the theory that more people will like it".
I know why I'm here (New Eden is libertarian/free market no nonsense heaven with space ships, and that suits me perfectly), i can't get the folks who aren't down with the program choosing to stay rather than play one or more of the hundreds of touchy feely politically correct carebear protectionist MMOs that exist.


People will speak from their own point of view. There are many females who would get a better EVE according to their own point of view if X, Y or Z happened but would also damage your EVE. They speak about it because they grew to like part of this game but would like other to change just like any player in EVE wish for some change to make it more to their pleasing.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#204 - 2015-02-09 21:17:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1 for the "who gives a damn" group.

I've been to a couple of informal EVE player meet ups in Texas and each time I was the only black person there (don't let the white girl avatar fool you, it was like being a raisin in a bowl of cornflakes!!). Of all the things to be concerned about in this short life, why more 'people like me' don't play EVE or attend meet ups is so far down the list Satan could use that part of the list as toilet paper.

I know a good few female players, some good some bad, none of them are fundamentally different that any other player.



I give a damb because I want more people playing EvE. If there are 10,000 black people who would be playing EvE but aren't for some reason that could sensibly be addressed, then that's 10k people who aren't logging in and providing me content.

Likewise women.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#205 - 2015-02-09 21:17:40 UTC
Lupe Meza wrote:


As far as this thread goes, why don't more women play eve? This thread.


Both you and Marsha have suggested that this thread is a problem. That there is something about the behavior in this thread that is conclusive evidence of . . . something.

What exactly is it?

I just re-read all 12 pages to see if there's something here that I skipped or am somehow missing.

What I see in this thread so far looks to me like the following:

a small amount of halfhearted trolling
a few people with obvious prejudices trying to sound reasonable but basically just sounding like idiots
a rather large number of people who are interested in having a grown-up discussion about the topic


What about this is a problem? Do you want to get rid of the trolls? Do you want to get rid of the people who are clearly uneducated and basically just think women are different/inferior? Or do you want to get rid of the people who actually want to have a rational discussion about this but whom you don't seem to like because some of us disagree with you?

If you are willing to agree with how I've characterized the responses to this thread, then you've got a problem with one of these groups of people. Which group is it that's causing the problem? And what specific remedy for this problem would make this thread okay?

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#206 - 2015-02-09 21:24:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1 for the "who gives a damn" group.

I've been to a couple of informal EVE player meet ups in Texas and each time I was the only black person there (don't let the white girl avatar fool you, it was like being a raisin in a bowl of cornflakes!!). Of all the things to be concerned about in this short life, why more 'people like me' don't play EVE or attend meet ups is so far down the list Satan could use that part of the list as toilet paper.

I know a good few female players, some good some bad, none of them are fundamentally different that any other player.



I give a damb because I want more people playing EvE. If there are 10,000 black people who would be playing EvE but aren't for some reason that could sensibly be addressed, then that's 10k people who aren't logging in and providing me content.

Likewise women.

Okay. So what can be sensibly addressed?
Sensible solutions should be practical, fair, and realistic, and must preserve the fundamental principles of EVE gameplay and player interactions.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#207 - 2015-02-09 21:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Glathull
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1 for the "who gives a damn" group.

I've been to a couple of informal EVE player meet ups in Texas and each time I was the only black person there (don't let the white girl avatar fool you, it was like being a raisin in a bowl of cornflakes!!). Of all the things to be concerned about in this short life, why more 'people like me' don't play EVE or attend meet ups is so far down the list Satan could use that part of the list as toilet paper.

I know a good few female players, some good some bad, none of them are fundamentally different that any other player.



I give a damb because I want more people playing EvE. If there are 10,000 black people who would be playing EvE but aren't for some reason that could sensibly be addressed, then that's 10k people who aren't logging in and providing me content.

Likewise women.



The key point here is "sensibly addressed." Without any specifics, the whole conversation is basically pointless.

edit:
Welp. Primary beat me to the punch.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#208 - 2015-02-09 21:29:31 UTC
Marsha you have addressed eleventy nine gendered epithets to me for every one (1) I have to you. Consider yourself called out.



Also I am a feminist and have no problem in saying so . It's a privilege I enjoy. EvE would be better with more players and it would be better yet if more of them were women. There is a problem with this community if it doesn't recogn ize that.

Ideally those women would be nicer than Marsha, but we don't always get what we want.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#209 - 2015-02-09 21:33:41 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1 for the "who gives a damn" group.

I've been to a couple of informal EVE player meet ups in Texas and each time I was the only black person there (don't let the white girl avatar fool you, it was like being a raisin in a bowl of cornflakes!!). Of all the things to be concerned about in this short life, why more 'people like me' don't play EVE or attend meet ups is so far down the list Satan could use that part of the list as toilet paper.

I know a good few female players, some good some bad, none of them are fundamentally different that any other player.



I give a damb because I want more people playing EvE. If there are 10,000 black people who would be playing EvE but aren't for some reason that could sensibly be addressed, then that's 10k people who aren't logging in and providing me content.

Likewise women.

Okay. So what can be sensibly addressed?
Sensible solutions should be practical, fair, and realistic, and must preserve the fundamental principles of EVE gameplay and player interactions.



Good point. Go make a sandwich for me whilst I consider it, then I'll tell you what to think.

Then kick you from Corp because youre uncomfortable with my inept flirting, you adorable love muffin.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#210 - 2015-02-09 21:40:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1 for the "who gives a damn" group.

I've been to a couple of informal EVE player meet ups in Texas and each time I was the only black person there (don't let the white girl avatar fool you, it was like being a raisin in a bowl of cornflakes!!). Of all the things to be concerned about in this short life, why more 'people like me' don't play EVE or attend meet ups is so far down the list Satan could use that part of the list as toilet paper.

I know a good few female players, some good some bad, none of them are fundamentally different that any other player.



I give a damb because I want more people playing EvE. If there are 10,000 black people who would be playing EvE but aren't for some reason that could sensibly be addressed, then that's 10k people who aren't logging in and providing me content.

Likewise women.

Okay. So what can be sensibly addressed?
Sensible solutions should be practical, fair, and realistic, and must preserve the fundamental principles of EVE gameplay and player interactions.



Good point. Go make a sandwich for me whilst I consider it, then I'll tell you what to think.

Then kick you from Corp because youre uncomfortable with my inept flirting, you adorable love muffin.



We get the point. There a number of douchebags in this game who talk sandwich trash and aren't good at knowing where appropriate social boundaries are. The point has been made over and over again.

How do you suggest we remedy this? Can it be done without turning the game into babysitters online?

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Marsha Mallow
#211 - 2015-02-09 21:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nope, it happened. The last guy that said "hur dur a w0man m8k me a sammich" in fleet with me got a swift podding.
First post of yours in a long time that I have really enjoyed. +1 Lol

Actually, I've noticed Goonswarm is generally intolerant of their female players being abused, which is strange when their line members do the opposite to external groups. Rydis joined joint NC comms years ago and had someone slobbering at her and the guy was hilariously slapped down, and she was appointed Sky Marshall for their campaign later on. Remarks were made about how she was mis-spoken to by NC lead which looked fairly intriguing. Everytime I join a GSF channel I notice people going out of their way to bait anyone they think might be a woman though. It looks like they almost want you to be annoyed.

Which helpfully leads onto my point, that it seems to be a hazing process. Or deliberate trolling for a reaction. Well, you got one. I think the next move might be ours, not yours. The squawking intensification just serves to demonstrate how badly it needs to happen. If anything, just for man-tears.

Kenneth Endashi wrote:
Marsha Mallow, thanks for addressing one of the harder questions to nail down. As one person said earlier, when a woman is treated differently on comms - whether it be good or bad - she does not stick around long in the corporation. I can draw connections between his experience of the game and your criticisms of the culture, along with those of Gwen Ikiryo, who says intelligent society moves on from unhealthy attitudes rather than attempting to change them.

BTW, this is not a conversation about how to change Eve. We are just freely exchanging ideas here, people.

Yw, and I'll try not to get too snappy in this topic. It's difficult not to when you've had female friends literally blubbing comms over some fairly nasty and sustained hate campaigns, and then they quit. There aren't enough of us to mount counter campaigns, and it's blatantly destructive to do so - which is why these flashpoint stories of women quitting over 'drama' keep popping up. They're outnumbered, and the dialogues that leak are skewed in the favour of the attacker. Maybe some of the scenarios that start this are a bit daft too. I did once shriek at a female corpie at length for drunkenly sending nude pics to some random cyberlover, and she still thinks it was 'perfectly acceptable'.

My corpies are mainly USTZ law enforcement/ex military/IT nerds/truckers btw. Strangely, after many years of play, they're still friends despite being a bunch of offensive perverts. I shout "STFU" a lot at them in comms, and then they giggle (which is a nice response). It's really upsetting for women involved in serious disputes at a corp level because in reality they have no natural allies - just leghumping supporters, which is sad - and if they drag other people into a row it will automatically default into a gender row. So they quit. And they talk about those experiences in other games, and now none of them want to play with the nasties anymore.

Malcanis wrote:
Marsha you have addressed eleventy nine gendered epithets to me for every one (1) I have to you. Consider yourself called out.

Also I am a feminist and have no problem in saying so . It's a privilege I enjoy. EvE would be better with more players and it would be better yet if more of them were women. There is a problem with this community if it doesn't recogn ize that.

Ideally those women would be nicer than Marsha, but we don't always get what we want.

Get off your arse and stop talking about improving the community and start doing so. There were plenty of times I could have spoken to you ingame about the trials and tribulations of various female players, but you, just like every other cockmonkey ingame will sit there and ramble on about it without doing a thing. Intervene, meaningfully.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#212 - 2015-02-09 21:51:53 UTC
My bet would be that women just aren't really that much into spaceships and scifi and after reading this thread I'm also happy that I have yet to meet guys so out of touch with reality and human contact that they'd go full on 'ey gurl -mode when they hear a female voice on team speak.

Though there is this one guy in language chat who I think regularly forgets his meds (and has been one of regulars on the channel for the last 7 years or so) and vent on a full blown tourette about doing stuff to women last night.
Most of us also have him blocked for the same reason as it gets very tiresome to watch someone raving on and on for hours on end, poor guy.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#213 - 2015-02-09 21:52:49 UTC
How?

You were notably short on specific suggestions we when discussed the subject a couple of years ago. I'm open to ideas.

Also it was darling of you to support my assertion like that.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#214 - 2015-02-09 22:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
few things in life are funnier than a nerd suddenly trying to act cool when a girl shows up on comms.

i just ask them to marry me or have my children to get that out of the way.

"we could be one of those suuuuper creepy EVE couples who put collages of their favorite ship and faction logos on their wedding announcements."

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Marsha Mallow
#215 - 2015-02-09 22:03:15 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Also it was darling of you to support my assertion like that.

Be quiet and go to your room.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#216 - 2015-02-09 22:10:10 UTC
Vyl Vit
#217 - 2015-02-09 22:17:57 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:

The world is exactly as pretty as we make it.

Luckily, most people are pretty good at filling the world with sunshine and rainbows. Its a beautiful place indeed.


well, your an idealist then.
I'm amused when people with little or no investment in areas of character like to characterize those who are so invested as "idealistic", as though they just threw a trump card. Allow me to chuckle. *heh heh heh*

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#218 - 2015-02-09 22:22:48 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Kenneth Endashi wrote:
BTW, this is not a conversation about how to change Eve. We are just freely exchanging ideas here, people.

Not really. You're just complaining that there aren't many women at EVE and grasping at straws as to why this might be.
Nobody is offering any practical solutions to what they perceive to be the problem. But that's not surprising considering who this is coming from.

Did the train of reality leave you at the station? Seriously, I had you figured for being somewhat intelligent.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Serene Repose
#219 - 2015-02-09 22:27:00 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Sensible solutions should be practical, fair, and realistic, and must preserve the fundamental principles of EVE gameplay and player interactions.
Google "dogma". Or not. Cool

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Memphis Baas
#220 - 2015-02-09 22:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Actually, I've noticed Goonswarm is generally intolerant of their female players being abused, which is strange when their line members do the opposite to external groups.

Not strange; they are a social group, if you're part of the group you're an equal, if you're not part of the group you're treated like ****, male or female they don't care.

Quote:
It's really upsetting for women involved in serious disputes at a corp level because in reality they have no natural allies - just leghumping supporters.

If you automatically classify all your allies as "leg humpers" then perhaps that explains why you don't have any allies. Nobody has "natural allies", this is the internet and if a stranger helps you, there's generally something they want in return. Not sure why you're calling everyone who helps you derisive terms behind their backs.

Quote:
Get off your arse and stop talking about improving the community and start doing so. There were plenty of times I could have spoken to you ingame about the trials and tribulations of various female players, but you, just like every other cockmonkey ingame will sit there and ramble on about it without doing a thing. Intervene, meaningfully.

"Trials and tribulations," omg, half an hour of blah blah blah. Do any males have this "trials and tribulations" view of the game? Carebears get killed repeatedly till they quit in frustration, never dramatized it as "trials and tribulations."

As far as Malcanis, he's (ex?) CSM, but did his agenda include "improve the game for women" specifically? Because if no, then you may want to get your own meaningful intervention rep who can do all the work for you, so you can then be entitled in cracking the whip like that.