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Why don't more women play Eve Online?

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Celestia Via
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#161 - 2015-02-09 18:35:35 UTC
Crevtran Sbatiol wrote:
Jesus, this thread is comedy gold.
Want to know what my feminist girlfirend said why she doesn't like Eve?
-"I am not interested in spaceships"
Guess what she didn't do: Write a blog on tumblr about the opression of open-minded feminists throught the patriachaic Video game industry and men in general.

Then she proceeded to kick demon butt with me in Diablo.


as opposed to men who all like spaceships?
I know alot of girls who can kick ass in a any scifi nerd convention, and Im not even from a country where scifi is promoted any.

I dont believe the scifi content is what drives women away.

"We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#162 - 2015-02-09 18:35:38 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:

He's not joking. And it's a good thing, of course. But notice how GSF did it without losing its overall cultural identity. A lot of what you people are suggesting is the reason EVE isn't popular with women is the same **** that we're known for, and yet we've got quite a few female players.


That's because any issue pushing women away from EVE are more likely to be out of game than in game with GSF being a example of that. The game didn't have to change one bit for them to implement some sort of moderation on their comms/boards and I'd guess the male to female ratio grew closer to other game's "standard" of population ratio.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#163 - 2015-02-09 18:40:57 UTC
Lupe Meza wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.


It's because for whatever reason having respect for other people is seen as a for of weakness, so the more you can exude a persona of not caring about anybody or anything, the "stronger" you appear. Usually goes away on it's own, but takes some longer than others if ever.


Nope, i highlighted the problematic word for you. "Expecting" people to be anything in an environment of freedom is wrong. Me personally, I don't have to 'accommodate' anyone, nor do they have to accommodate me.

The underlined sentence is also important. many of us come to places like this to take a short break from a stupidly politically correct world where fake politeness is the norm. I prefer situations like EVE (and biker bars) where people speak their minds and let the chips fall where they may (sometimes those chips have fists).
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#164 - 2015-02-09 18:41:14 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:

He's not joking. And it's a good thing, of course. But notice how GSF did it without losing its overall cultural identity. A lot of what you people are suggesting is the reason EVE isn't popular with women is the same **** that we're known for, and yet we've got quite a few female players.


That's because any issue pushing women away from EVE are more likely to be out of game than in game with GSF being a example of that. The game didn't have to change one bit for them to implement some sort of moderation on their comms/boards and I'd guess the male to female ratio grew closer to other game's "standard" of population ratio.

Yeah, GSF is a good example that all it takes to improve your culture is a single mute or kick command or a single press of F1.

Not so strangely, the majority of female EVE players who do not hide their gender that I know of are Goons.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#165 - 2015-02-09 18:44:58 UTC
You know.... I am a bit of an artsy fartsy person. I make the nerdy arts. Drawings of creatures and spaceships and such. I like to look at other peoples' nerdy art. There are female nerd artists out there, more and more of them it seems. But I've never seen a female artist who draws spaceships. Anyone know any female spaceship designers? That would be interesting to see...
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#166 - 2015-02-09 18:48:46 UTC
I think that many of the fine, upstanding, perfectly awful women who play EvE well are being mis-served by the morality police masquerading as feminists in this thread.

There are a few things to consider here in no particular order.


There is no universally agreed upon definition for how people should behave towards each other. Not in real life. Not in games. Saying that you just want "to make things better" sounds like a good talk, but it's meaningless at best. At worst, you are attempting to impose control. You are pushing your concept of better on other people who may not agree with you.

I think this is really at the heart of why all types of activist groups can be so toxic: everyone is so very passionate and committed to making the world a better place that no one has bothered to notice that we don't all agree on what that should be.

I'm not generally a mouth-breather, but I do rankle when people put arbitrary rules in place for the sake of propriety or whatever.
I don't dislike black males, for example. But when someone tells me I have to treat them a little bit more special than I treat other people because, you know, slavery and hurt feelings and stuff, well that bugs me.

I don't care what color your skin is, I don't care if you have a **** or not, you are not special to me. And I don't expect you to treat me like I'm special. Because I'm not.

There is a concept of a world where everyone gets along, and people are nice to each other, and unicorns fart rainbows. But these things aren't as good as they sound. The only way to achieve this kind of a "better world" is to remove all freedom and choice from it. Enforced peace is rather boring, uninteresting, and morally worthless to me.

EvE is a bit like the real world in many ways. There are lots of assclowns and racists and sexists and generally just nasty people. Because we can be that way. And just like in real life, there are people who choose not to be this way.

If you change the game to "make it better" you are taking away the opportunity to be bad. You are taking meaning away from the people who choose to be better.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#167 - 2015-02-09 18:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Glathull wrote:
I think that many of the fine, upstanding, perfectly awful women who play EvE well are being mis-served by the morality police masquerading as feminists in this thread.

There are a few things to consider here in no particular order.


There is no universally agreed upon definition for how people should behave towards each other. Not in real life. Not in games. Saying that you just want "to make things better" sounds like a good talk, but it's meaningless at best. At worst, you are attempting to impose control. You are pushing your concept of better on other people who may not agree with you.

I think this is really at the heart of why all types of activist groups can be so toxic: everyone is so very passionate and committed to making the world a better place that no one has bothered to notice that we don't all agree on what that should be.

I'm not generally a mouth-breather, but I do rankle when people put arbitrary rules in place for the sake of propriety or whatever.
I don't dislike black males, for example. But when someone tells me I have to treat them a little bit more special than I treat other people because, you know, slavery and hurt feelings and stuff, well that bugs me.

I don't care what color your skin is, I don't care if you have a **** or not, you are not special to me. And I don't expect you to treat me like I'm special. Because I'm not.

There is a concept of a world where everyone gets along, and people are nice to each other, and unicorns fart rainbows. But these things aren't as good as they sound. The only way to achieve this kind of a "better world" is to remove all freedom and choice from it. Enforced peace is rather boring, uninteresting, and morally worthless to me.

EvE is a bit like the real world in many ways. There are lots of assclowns and racists and sexists and generally just nasty people. Because we can be that way. And just like in real life, there are people who choose not to be this way.

If you change the game to "make it better" you are taking away the opportunity to be bad. You are taking meaning away from the people who choose to be better.


You can't see it, but I'm standing up and clapping right now. And I'm glad you can't see it because I EVE pantless Big smile

About the underlined part, reminds me of this: http://theweek.com/articles/459460/people-hate-feminists-environmentalists-activists-general
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#168 - 2015-02-09 18:52:19 UTC
Glathull wrote:
I think that many of the fine, upstanding, perfectly awful women who play EvE well are being mis-served by the morality police masquerading as feminists in this thread.

There are a few things to consider here in no particular order.


There is no universally agreed upon definition for how people should behave towards each other. Not in real life. Not in games. Saying that you just want "to make things better" sounds like a good talk, but it's meaningless at best. At worst, you are attempting to impose control. You are pushing your concept of better on other people who may not agree with you.

I think this is really at the heart of why all types of activist groups can be so toxic: everyone is so very passionate and committed to making the world a better place that no one has bothered to notice that we don't all agree on what that should be.

I'm not generally a mouth-breather, but I do rankle when people put arbitrary rules in place for the sake of propriety or whatever.
I don't dislike black males, for example. But when someone tells me I have to treat them a little bit more special than I treat other people because, you know, slavery and hurt feelings and stuff, well that bugs me.

I don't care what color your skin is, I don't care if you have a **** or not, you are not special to me. And I don't expect you to treat me like I'm special. Because I'm not.

There is a concept of a world where everyone gets along, and people are nice to each other, and unicorns fart rainbows. But these things aren't as good as they sound. The only way to achieve this kind of a "better world" is to remove all freedom and choice from it. Enforced peace is rather boring, uninteresting, and morally worthless to me.

EvE is a bit like the real world in many ways. There are lots of assclowns and racists and sexists and generally just nasty people. Because we can be that way. And just like in real life, there are people who choose not to be this way.

If you change the game to "make it better" you are taking away the opportunity to be bad. You are taking meaning away from the people who choose to be better.


Well said, sir, well said.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2015-02-09 18:57:44 UTC
Guys. It's not a mystery. Women don't come around because they know we're all hairy and overweight.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#170 - 2015-02-09 19:03:29 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Why do so many people here think of "EVE Players" as some sort of monolithic and uniform culture?

Players of different ages have different cultures within EVE. Players of different nationalities have different cultures within EVE. Players of different play styles have different cultures within eve. Players of different alliances have different cultures within EVE. Players of different corporations have different cultures within EVE.

Many of these internal cultures of EVE I enjoy, many I do not enjoy and some I loathe. None of them give any reason to speak of a dominant culture that all players share.

There is no "this is how we EVE players are" in a game this vast.


Oh, but the wider community looks pretty monolithic when you look at it.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2015-02-09 19:03:58 UTC
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#172 - 2015-02-09 19:06:09 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
look at my pretty, wide monolith. look.

Can't. It was deliberately buried.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#173 - 2015-02-09 19:09:04 UTC
imma primary your rifter bawls deep xX6969Xx

you're my type. face like a man, body of a venus.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#174 - 2015-02-09 19:10:17 UTC
What happens if we turn this silly question on its head?

Why don't more men play EvE?

In other words, why don't more people in general play this game? Is there something fundamental about the game that limits its appeal? If so, what is that?

The "feminist" argument is that women don't want to hang around with bad boys. If all the boys behaved themselves we'd have hot women pvpeeing all over us.

Bullshit.

Some women like the bad boys. And by some, I mean almost all.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2015-02-09 19:13:07 UTC
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#176 - 2015-02-09 19:15:54 UTC
Glathull wrote:
I think that many of the fine, upstanding, perfectly awful women who play EvE well are being mis-served by the morality police masquerading as feminists in this thread.

There are a few things to consider here in no particular order.


There is no universally agreed upon definition for how people should behave towards each other. Not in real life. Not in games. Saying that you just want "to make things better" sounds like a good talk, but it's meaningless at best. At worst, you are attempting to impose control. You are pushing your concept of better on other people who may not agree with you.

I think this is really at the heart of why all types of activist groups can be so toxic: everyone is so very passionate and committed to making the world a better place that no one has bothered to notice that we don't all agree on what that should be.

I'm not generally a mouth-breather, but I do rankle when people put arbitrary rules in place for the sake of propriety or whatever.
I don't dislike black males, for example. But when someone tells me I have to treat them a little bit more special than I treat other people because, you know, slavery and hurt feelings and stuff, well that bugs me.

I don't care what color your skin is, I don't care if you have a **** or not, you are not special to me. And I don't expect you to treat me like I'm special. Because I'm not.

There is a concept of a world where everyone gets along, and people are nice to each other, and unicorns fart rainbows. But these things aren't as good as they sound. The only way to achieve this kind of a "better world" is to remove all freedom and choice from it. Enforced peace is rather boring, uninteresting, and morally worthless to me.

EvE is a bit like the real world in many ways. There are lots of assclowns and racists and sexists and generally just nasty people. Because we can be that way. And just like in real life, there are people who choose not to be this way.

If you change the game to "make it better" you are taking away the opportunity to be bad. You are taking meaning away from the people who choose to be better.


This is pretty much all the truth and the only point I think that could be added is that as long as you think the game should leave you all those choice, you should not question why "demographic X" is under represented as chance are some of the choice some people make are what is driving that demographic away.

Jenn aSide is a great example of people who think it should stay as is and also see that it's can't be for everyone in it's current form.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#177 - 2015-02-09 19:21:40 UTC
Glathull wrote:
What happens if we turn this silly question on its head?

Why don't more men play EvE?

In other words, why don't more people in general play this game? Is there something fundamental about the game that limits its appeal? If so, what is that?

The "feminist" argument is that women don't want to hang around with bad boys. If all the boys behaved themselves we'd have hot women pvpeeing all over us.

Bullshit.

Some women like the bad boys. And by some, I mean almost all.


The interest of men in PVP spaceship game being lower than let's say fantasy theme park RPG is just not the same. The ratio from male to female in game should be about the same as it is in other genre if the lower number was because of the game content unless you think the content really is an issue.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#178 - 2015-02-09 19:24:32 UTC
WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#179 - 2015-02-09 19:25:26 UTC
Look how many views/replies/pages this thread has already just cuz its about "women"

When a woman comes out in any MMO, they get non-stop attention of this kind by rabid kneckbeards.
You wonder why not many women play eve? Cuz as soon as a damn thread is made containing the work "woman" in it erry guys hormones rage and feel the need to reply
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2015-02-09 19:26:43 UTC
You gotta admit, though, it's really nice hearing them on comms. Totally worth the free stuff they get constantly.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)