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Why don't more women play Eve Online?

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Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2015-02-09 18:11:15 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.


no, not at all, the world works on power plays, everyone trying to one up each other, from cvountries doing it, to people standing around a water cooler.
The problem is when people think that being offended gives them some sort of rights to silence the other person. The world and other people do not care about your feelings, and that is why EvE is the way it is, and it should stay that way.
Celestia Via
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#142 - 2015-02-09 18:13:25 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:

The majority of scientific research groups are all-male sausage fests and they manage to do research just fine without having to wrestle or measure dicks to figure out whose results are the best.


I dont know about that, some studies and articles I have read indicate that there are nowadays as many women scientists as men, and that the impression of the all-male scientific community is an anachronism. I cannot vouch for their validity but I would like to believe it.

Also, I am a student on mathematics. My department was male dominated 20 years ago, where now its exactly 50-50, if that tells you anything.

Damjan Fox wrote:
Quote:
are you so afraid that if it changed to include women

And how would such a change look like?


thats not for me to decide, its hard for me to even imagine it, let alone make suggestions on it.
But i wouldnt think it impossible for trained professionals to achieve. Hard, but not impossible.

"We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#143 - 2015-02-09 18:13:46 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.

No it isn't. The world works because we all make the base assumption that people will not change their behavior just because you tell them to. It's a waste of time. You're preaching to the choir if you're telling people that sexist comments are bad. Everyone who agrees with you is already behaving as you want them to, and everyone who doesn't is not going to change for you. I seriously don't know what you expect to happen.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#144 - 2015-02-09 18:18:26 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.


no, not at all, the world works on power plays, everyone trying to one up each other, from cvountries doing it, to people standing around a water cooler.
The problem is when people think that being offended gives them some sort of rights to silence the other person. The world and other people do not care about your feelings, and that is why EvE is the way it is, and it should stay that way.


That's how you see the world? Man, that sounds terrible!
Josef Djugashvilis
#145 - 2015-02-09 18:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Primary this Rifter wrote,

...Maybe it's because EVE players are educated enough to know what a toxic movement feminism really is...

Lordy, dear Rifter person , the right to free speech does not mean that you have to use it, and in your case should not.

This is not a signature.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#146 - 2015-02-09 18:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Why do so many people here think of "EVE Players" as some sort of monolithic and uniform culture?

Players of different ages have different cultures within EVE. Players of different nationalities have different cultures within EVE. Players of different play styles have different cultures within eve. Players of different alliances have different cultures within EVE. Players of different corporations have different cultures within EVE.

Many of these internal cultures of EVE I enjoy, many I do not enjoy and some I loathe. None of them give any reason to speak of a dominant culture that all players share.

There is no "this is how we EVE players are" in a game this vast.
Celestia Via
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#147 - 2015-02-09 18:19:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Nope, it happened.

The last guy that said "hur dur a w0man m8k me a sammich" in fleet with me got a swift podding.


and to think i believed all the rumors that proclaimed how sexist, unwashed, smelly and decrepid the Goons are.
Good for you if you arent joking, its exactly this type of behaviour i would like to see promoted.
+1

"We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#148 - 2015-02-09 18:20:26 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:


That's how you see the world? Man, that sounds terrible!


The world isn't a pretty place, its not sunshine and rainbows.
Serene Repose
#149 - 2015-02-09 18:21:18 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
This thread is a monument to how men (and boys) have a loose grasp of the truth with a firm grip on the joystick.

THIS

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#150 - 2015-02-09 18:23:23 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:


That's how you see the world? Man, that sounds terrible!


The world isn't a pretty place, its not sunshine and rainbows.

The world is exactly as pretty as we make it.

Luckily, most people are pretty good at filling the world with sunshine and rainbows. Its a beautiful place indeed.
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2015-02-09 18:23:41 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.


It's because for whatever reason having respect for other people is seen as a for of weakness, so the more you can exude a persona of not caring about anybody or anything, the "stronger" you appear. Usually goes away on it's own, but takes some longer than others if ever.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#152 - 2015-02-09 18:26:03 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:

The world is exactly as pretty as we make it.

Luckily, most people are pretty good at filling the world with sunshine and rainbows. Its a beautiful place indeed.


well, your an idealist then.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2015-02-09 18:26:13 UTC
Lupe Meza wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I don't understand why so many Eve players seem to think expecting people to act generally decent and be willing to accommodate a little bit to the people they're playing with a little to not annoy or offend them is some crazy demanding egotistical outlandish thing. That's how most of the world works.


It's because for whatever reason having respect for other people is seen as a for of weakness, so the more you can exude a persona of not caring about anybody or anything, the "stronger" you appear. Usually goes away on it's own, but takes some longer than others if ever.


It's even better when you start reading about how that same player base is somehow supposedly more mature than any other game's player base.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#154 - 2015-02-09 18:27:43 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Primary this Rifter wrote,

...Maybe it's because EVE players are educated enough to know what a toxic movement feminism really is...

Lordy, dear Rifter person , the right to free speech does not mean that you have to use it.

That's how you lose it.

Celestia Via wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Nope, it happened.

The last guy that said "hur dur a w0man m8k me a sammich" in fleet with me got a swift podding.


and to think i believed all the rumors that proclaimed how sexist, unwashed, smelly and decrepid the Goons are.
Good for you if you arent joking, its exactly this type of behaviour i would like to see promoted.
+1

He's not joking. And it's a good thing, of course. But notice how GSF did it without losing its overall cultural identity. A lot of what you people are suggesting is the reason EVE isn't popular with women is the same **** that we're known for, and yet we've got quite a few female players.
Celestia Via
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#155 - 2015-02-09 18:28:21 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
This thread is a monument to how men (and boys) have a loose grasp of the truth with a firm grip on the joystick.

THIS


easy to criticize, and not even constructively for that matter. Show us the truth then, if you can see our loose grasp of it so clearly.
This is a good thread, interesting stuff to some. Its not mandatory to post something smart in it, really. P

"We marched for days and nights, under sun, in the rain. Our minds and bodies ached for rest, but in our hearts there was nothing but the fight."
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2015-02-09 18:29:27 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Lupe Meza wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:


Look at the post I wrote. You're defending the way you act - Or rather, the way that a lot of the Eve community acts - on the basis that that's how Eve has "always been", rather then even trying to justify the behaviour itself directly. You're getting defensive because people are coming in to a place where you're used to saying rude and crappy stuff to people and pointing out that it's pretty rude and crappy by most normal standards.

It's that attitude there that makes the game so completely unattractive to women. The absolute refusal of many Eve players to show basic mature empathy for people around you and adjust the way you act accordingly. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you, but it is what it is.


EvE is EvE, it shouldn't change because there is no other game like it.
I shouldn't have to defend it, if you can't handle things being said to you, because it offends your sensibilities, then your free to go to another game.
We aren't here to be empathetic, we're here to play EvE, if you want empathy, go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.


Isn't that a little circular? EVE is EVE. It's not the first tiem this happens, there is always someone using some flavor of this rallying cry, but they fail to define what EVE is "supposed to be". The best they can do is frame what their experience is from their limited frame of reference.

When a game is so many things to so many different people how can it BE anything?
Don't miss the subtlety here. You can't say someone else's EVE isn't EVE without saying yourself what EVE is, which is your EVE. That leaves it at who's opinion is more important, yours, or theirs. YOU of course will say yours is, and that's why you say "this is how it's always been." However, having been here "that long" myself, I'll tell you unequivocally, no it is NOT how EVE has always been. It is however how EVE has BECOME....ever since WoW introduced this panda thing we've had this increase in a certain mentality here...I'll bet there's a corresponding decrease over at WoW.

This is how people you think are cool TOLD you how EVE is. It's just that level of honesty in our discussions that give them the flavor they have....these days. Have you read my sig....yet?


First CEO I had was one of those older EVE Players around near the dawn of time. He would spin these yarns about how EVE used to be. I had another guy in another corp down the line telling the same stories. I basically asked both of the "what happened"? I mean I enjoy eve, but I only started in 2012 but it is nothing like they described. Hell I'd pay twice the money to play the game they described.

I'd like to think that I can have experiences like they describe but I don't know.
Crevtran Sbatiol
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2015-02-09 18:29:34 UTC
Jesus, this thread is comedy gold.
Want to know what my feminist girlfirend said why she doesn't like Eve?
-"I am not interested in spaceships"
Guess what she didn't do: Write a blog on tumblr about the opression of open-minded feminists throught the patriachaic Video game industry and men in general.

Then she proceeded to kick demon butt with me in Diablo.

Alice: Geez, Bob, you taunted the Goons and now they want to kill you. Bob: Should I call the police? Alice: In game, Bob, kill you in game. Bob: Ah, so petition it and call the police?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2015-02-09 18:29:43 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Maybe guys are better off leaving this one alone. Seriously. All you can do is state your misguided prejudices as gospel truth. How you look when you're done? Really. You don't want that.


Don't you think it's a bit ironic to generalise all men as prejudiced?

This thread is really fun when you play "spot the feminist".


I prefer to play spot the idiot.
The fun part is when they don't realize they've been spotted.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2015-02-09 18:29:48 UTC
theres an easy reason not "alot" of women play EVE

culturally and statistically, less women play games then men, yes with younger generations this is changing, but eve is PRIMARILY an older generation's interest, then also realize EVE is a niche hardcore game within an already significant niche market of "games that arent WoW-clones", meaning the number of gamers who play EVE compared to the rest of the market is already low, so the chances of someone not only being in the age-of-interest, as well as into the niche market, AND being a woman, is incredibly low.

EVE caters to a specific brand of people, and the further you venture from the "generic profile" of gamers, the less likely you are to see a diverse playerbase, because it becomes the interest of an ever more niche audience

this isnt a bad thing, its just a thing that is


that being said, I wish more russian girls/women played EVE, because damnit the accidents the dudes have, its like theyre talking with a mouth full food and veins full of alcohol, cant understand a word, the girls are at least a little less guttural.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2015-02-09 18:30:35 UTC
whoops, double posted, got a "we were ganked" sign and tought it hadnt posted