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Viable ships for solo C4 wormholes other than tengus?
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Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2011-12-17 07:56:38 UTC
Hey guys,

I know the Tengu's great for them, but I'm trying to think of alternatives to it. I know the Legion used to be wonderful, but I don't know about it since sleeper neuts were fixed.

I'm not looking for some super-esoteric ships. Some of my initial thoughts were nighthawk, because of its stupid huge passive tank and like I mentioned, the legion. Potentially Sleipnir, since you could just cap-inject for the booster when necessary, but I think you'd probably run into issues carrying your cap booster charges.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#2 - 2011-12-17 08:42:44 UTC
Nighthawk is basically a Tengu(- awesome)(+ crap). Dominix might be a good way to go, especially with the tank it can pull off.
Caractacus Dio
Inception Innovations
#3 - 2011-12-17 11:16:15 UTC
Big ships like the Dominix would get eaten alive.

Apart from Tech 3s, you are looking at Command Ships. The new neuting changes have made piloting in C4s very challenging, I have never completed anomalies solo as I was fortunate to have 2 capable characters.

Post-neuting changes I dual boxed RR Tengus (rep not constantly on) and they could manage all the anomalies in a C4. With the focus being on 1 ship, you will have to run your rep 23/7 whilst being neuted. Using cap boosters won't last long.

Best of luck, but I'd advise flying with a wingman.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#4 - 2011-12-17 11:21:57 UTC
Rattler could probably handle it...?

thhief ghabmoef
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-17 12:27:23 UTC
carrier or (very)pimped tengu, otherwise you are out of luck, the tengu might still pop in harder sites
Sokniw
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-17 12:38:50 UTC
C4 is touch cause its right in that middle ground, its not a c3 but its not a c5, i lived in a c5 with my old 5 man corp a while ago, and we ran c5 sites with 4-5 guys spidertanking it in armor tanked domi's, and i somehow managed to use an armor tanked ravenw with reps and xfers.

But like other said, tengu, or nighthawk cause of the tank, and i bet possibly a drake if you spend a good bilion or 2 on mods and implants.
SpaceSquirrels
#7 - 2011-12-17 19:17:48 UTC
More efficient to run something else solo. If you wanna say you did or "can" spend a lot on mods, pills, and implants. Just simpler to run with a team.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#8 - 2011-12-17 19:20:37 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Nighthawk is basically a Tengu(- awesome)(+ crap).


Don't forget + more sexiness.
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#9 - 2011-12-17 20:08:23 UTC
I won't try to solo a C4 but anything that's fitted well can handle it if logi is involved.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-12-19 17:02:45 UTC
Jesus Rambo wrote:
Hey guys,

I know the Tengu's great for them, but I'm trying to think of alternatives to it. I know the Legion used to be wonderful, but I don't know about it since sleeper neuts were fixed.

I'm not looking for some super-esoteric ships. Some of my initial thoughts were nighthawk, because of its stupid huge passive tank and like I mentioned, the legion. Potentially Sleipnir, since you could just cap-inject for the booster when necessary, but I think you'd probably run into issues carrying your cap booster charges.

What types of sites are you looking to run? If you're dealing with Gravs and Ladars, a Tengu (or NH, or probably a Sleip as well) should have no trouble at all even when you get into Frontier and Core sites. Mag/Radar/Anom sites are a whole another can of worms though, soloing them is likely to be quite difficult and perhaps even unprofitable (you're probably best off with a Pulsar, but those systems are popular for Sleeper plexing in general...avoid Cataclysmics, Wolf-Rayets, Black Holes, and probably Magnetars too!)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2011-12-19 17:35:25 UTC
You are going to be better off speed running C3s, TBH. I've solo run them in Tengus, Lokis, Sleipnirs, even Drakes... I know that you can solo run them in a great many ships. Good luck.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-12-19 18:24:39 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
You are going to be better off speed running C3s, TBH. I've solo run them in Tengus, Lokis, Sleipnirs, even Drakes... I know that you can solo run them in a great many ships. Good luck.

-Liang

Agreed. C4s are sort of a "never-never land" between solo territory (C1-C3) and "bring a well-built fleet or else you get WTFBBQed by the Sleepers" territory (C5/C6).
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#13 - 2011-12-19 22:26:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
You are going to be better off speed running C3s, TBH. I've solo run them in Tengus, Lokis, Sleipnirs, even Drakes... I know that you can solo run them in a great many ships. Good luck.

-Liang


Any chance of getting your Sleip or Loki fits?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2011-12-19 22:32:38 UTC
Jesus Rambo wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
You are going to be better off speed running C3s, TBH. I've solo run them in Tengus, Lokis, Sleipnirs, even Drakes... I know that you can solo run them in a great many ships. Good luck.

-Liang


Any chance of getting your Sleip or Loki fits?


Sure - evemail me and I'll send you the sleip when I get home. Its basically a 720 fit with a Pith B-Type LSB and CCC IIs for rigs. The Loki is very similar but runs a deadspace medium booster and has a T2 proj rig. It requires both Minnie engineering 5 and Proj Rigging 5.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Capital T
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-12-20 09:38:32 UTC
I have lived in a c4 for more than 6 months and never had an issue with my tengu,


[Tengu, HM]
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

6x Heavy Missile Launcher II (Scourge Fury Heavy Missile)

2x Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II
10MN Afterburner II

3x Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
2x Medium Core Defence Field Extender II


With the exception of no drones. I would love to try a nighthawk for c4 sites solo, cause you get the drone bay... :)

I used range as part of my tank, and never had any issues getting neuted, although I just read that they changed the neuts... I do not know the range of them now...

+2 for liangs posts... :)
Tora Oni
Legendary Sidekicks in Space
#16 - 2011-12-20 11:20:34 UTC
If you want to solo a C4, its faster to just contract me the ship. Then it would be useful. Blink
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-20 13:58:14 UTC
Solo I wouldn't want to try in a C4. You quickly start to encounter problems of sufficient damage and enough tank. Cap boosters aren't enough - with 800ish dps you are looking at around 40min/site IIRC... it has been a few months since I ran them so don't remember exactly. However, if you take a basilisk, you can get one to run 4 RR and 1 local rep (Pith C-type large is what I used, its enough to get by, though can sometimes get close, and enough to just sit still and tank everything if you have a fleet booster) with 2 incoming cap transfer. This allowed me to go ahead and toss a nightmare out on the field, dumping about 1000dps at 50km with tach's, or around 8-900ish with x-ray. 90% of the time X-ray stayed loaded, and it was a setup that worked very well with adding additional fleet member.

Another ship that you can get to work is a rattlesnake. If you set it up right, you can actually get a rattlesnake to locally tank the sites and have RR on it, and be able to do one of them while under neuting. I wouldn't recommend one solo though, caust its DPS is low enough at the required ranges to make it possibly impossible to complete some sites.

The last ship that I heard of working was a dual vargur pair. The vargur's cap buddy each other and then run a local tank. Each can put out 7-800dps with autocannons fit, while being able to tank the sites, and the cap buddying allows you to pretty much ignore the neuting.

All this being said, you can generally make more isk/time invested in C3's than in C4's. And you can do C3's solo while C4's are pretty close to impossible without spending far more than you can ever possibly recoup.

-Arazel
Capital T
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-12-20 19:36:40 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Solo I wouldn't want to try in a C4. You quickly start to encounter problems of sufficient damage and enough tank. Cap boosters aren't enough - with 800ish dps you are looking at around 40min/site IIRC... it has been a few months since I ran them so don't remember exactly. However, if you take a basilisk, you can get one to run 4 RR and 1 local rep (Pith C-type large is what I used, its enough to get by, though can sometimes get close, and enough to just sit still and tank everything if you have a fleet booster) with 2 incoming cap transfer. This allowed me to go ahead and toss a nightmare out on the field, dumping about 1000dps at 50km with tach's, or around 8-900ish with x-ray. 90% of the time X-ray stayed loaded, and it was a setup that worked very well with adding additional fleet member.

Another ship that you can get to work is a rattlesnake. If you set it up right, you can actually get a rattlesnake to locally tank the sites and have RR on it, and be able to do one of them while under neuting. I wouldn't recommend one solo though, caust its DPS is low enough at the required ranges to make it possibly impossible to complete some sites.

The last ship that I heard of working was a dual vargur pair. The vargur's cap buddy each other and then run a local tank. Each can put out 7-800dps with autocannons fit, while being able to tank the sites, and the cap buddying allows you to pretty much ignore the neuting.

All this being said, you can generally make more isk/time invested in C3's than in C4's. And you can do C3's solo while C4's are pretty close to impossible without spending far more than you can ever possibly recoup.

-Arazel


On thing I don't like, is spending too much time (though this is opinion here as to how much time is too much) in one spot, working a site. I always ran c4's in groups, though it seemed that I had the need to prove myself, and complete c4 sites solo. C3's work great cause in 20-30 min you can be done with the site and move on to the next.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-21 00:46:01 UTC
Capital T wrote:
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Solo I wouldn't want to try in a C4. You quickly start to encounter problems of sufficient damage and enough tank. Cap boosters aren't enough - with 800ish dps you are looking at around 40min/site IIRC... it has been a few months since I ran them so don't remember exactly. However, if you take a basilisk, you can get one to run 4 RR and 1 local rep (Pith C-type large is what I used, its enough to get by, though can sometimes get close, and enough to just sit still and tank everything if you have a fleet booster) with 2 incoming cap transfer. This allowed me to go ahead and toss a nightmare out on the field, dumping about 1000dps at 50km with tach's, or around 8-900ish with x-ray. 90% of the time X-ray stayed loaded, and it was a setup that worked very well with adding additional fleet member.

Another ship that you can get to work is a rattlesnake. If you set it up right, you can actually get a rattlesnake to locally tank the sites and have RR on it, and be able to do one of them while under neuting. I wouldn't recommend one solo though, caust its DPS is low enough at the required ranges to make it possibly impossible to complete some sites.

The last ship that I heard of working was a dual vargur pair. The vargur's cap buddy each other and then run a local tank. Each can put out 7-800dps with autocannons fit, while being able to tank the sites, and the cap buddying allows you to pretty much ignore the neuting.

All this being said, you can generally make more isk/time invested in C3's than in C4's. And you can do C3's solo while C4's are pretty close to impossible without spending far more than you can ever possibly recoup.

-Arazel


On thing I don't like, is spending too much time (though this is opinion here as to how much time is too much) in one spot, working a site. I always ran c4's in groups, though it seemed that I had the need to prove myself, and complete c4 sites solo. C3's work great cause in 20-30 min you can be done with the site and move on to the next.


I will admit that I rarely ran the nightmare/basi solo. Having 3 characters, one of which was a maxed booster tengu alt and the other 2 in site made me able to solo them when I was the only person online. However, when I was able to get other people to join me in sites, they generally moved along significantly faster. 2 nightmares + 1 basi is great for burning through sites, rats are often dead before tengu's do significant amounts of damage (the rats also like to start out at 70 to 150+km from the warpin, which makes tach's awsome, and when I started some of my friends were running tengu's... they quickly saw the light Big smile). Most we ever had was... 4 nightmares, 1 mach, 1 basi, 1 noctis and the fleet booster... we kept the noctis busy all night there. But it definately scaled up very nicely. More than the 5 battleships and 3 cruisers though and you would have to start downgrading battleships to cruisers due to mass constraints.

Generally I would say for C4's to:
1 person - either don't do it or get a rattlesnake if you absolutely have to
2 people - either 1 basi + 1 nightmare (or appropriate other battleship of choice) or 2 vargurs
3-5 people - 1 basi + 2-4 battleships of choice
6+ people - 2 logi's + strategic cruisers of choice... at this point it doesn't really matter (or you can run RR t3 gang)

-Arazel