These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A Message Regarding "Hyperdunking"

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Valterra Craven
#1061 - 2015-02-09 04:23:32 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:

Every thought you have is wrong.


*tips hat* Same to you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1062 - 2015-02-09 04:38:48 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Only when the victim chooses to be anti-social and refuses to work with others.


So back to victim blaming again?


Who else is to blame for their incompetence?
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1063 - 2015-02-09 04:47:55 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:

Every thought you have is wrong.


*tips hat*


Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.
Valterra Craven
#1064 - 2015-02-09 04:59:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Who else is to blame for their incompetence?


Being anti-social is not incompetence.
Valterra Craven
#1065 - 2015-02-09 05:01:35 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:

Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.


Defeat is nothing but education.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1066 - 2015-02-09 05:06:41 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:

Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.


Defeat is nothing but education.


Ah, then I've taught you something. I'll assume you said thank you.

You're welcome.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1067 - 2015-02-09 05:20:30 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Who else is to blame for their incompetence?


Being anti-social is not incompetence.


Refusing to work with others or use any other tools however is.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1068 - 2015-02-09 06:12:55 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Who else is to blame for their incompetence?


Being anti-social is not incompetence.


It is when you are playing an MMO that rewards having and knowing how/when to use social skills.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1069 - 2015-02-09 08:11:47 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

If you want to dispense justice, do it in LoSec. You'll never get what you're looking for as long as CONCORD and FacPo stand in your way.


Why would a miner dispense justice to people that had nothing to do with him?

Go to LoSec and find out.

Quote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

Bounty hunting does not pay. In fact it cannot pay, not without leaving itself open to exploitation.


Then there is no way practical way for a victim to dispense justice against his attacker.

Not in HiSec, no. It was never intended to offer that kind of play.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#1070 - 2015-02-09 08:57:45 UTC
This discussions always end in everyone versus a new alt of Ripard Teg

Evil RatKid
Black Pedro
Mine.
#1071 - 2015-02-09 09:45:41 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
There's no way to hurt gankers that fund themselves through metagaming. Further to the point, at least code gets something out of it while someone trying to hurt, or stop codes gets almost nothing. Yeah their ships are "profitable" to gank, but again not enough to bother with. Opportunity costs exists. Providing neutral logi not only puts yourself at greater risk (you really think code won't try to put a stop that?) with ZERO rewards since its not like you get loot drops from saving a freighter.

Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.

There are effective ways to dispense justice, just not ones that are profitable. If you fall into the carebear trap of viewing everything in terms of ISK/hour, then no, there is no direct financial benefit for you to fight the gankers. However, this game is not always maximizing your ISK/hour or there would be no gankers as pretty much any other activity in the game pays more than ganking.

What Eve really is about is imposing your will on New Eden, using whatever game and meta-game machinations you can. That sometimes means the path towards your goal is not to continually do "push-button-receive-cookie" missions or mining in highsec, but will require you to play the long game, and perhaps interact with other players. Do you think that a wormhole corp engaging in the eviction of a competitor is directly profiting from that action? Or that the battle of B-R5RB was entered by both sides thinking they would make ISK out of the engagement?

James 315 and the New Order have claimed highsec for themselves and are engaging in a campaign of suicide ganking of haulers and miners to shape New Eden to their will. They fund their escapades through unconventional, but very much in the spirit of Eve, meta-game means. There are nullsec entities that run ganking operations in highsec to disrupt the logistics of their enemies. And other, more conventional highsec criminals operate purely for profit by carefully picking their targets. All of them do this for their own reasons in the sandbox, and while they are completely avoidable if you spend a little effort, they are also vulnerable to your efforts in opposing them if you wish.

Justice is not something that will be handed to you on a plate in New Eden. If you lose your ship to a roaming lowsec gang you do not get to push a "I demand satisfaction" button and force an honourable duel with them after the fact. Similarly, if a highsec criminal catches you with your pants down and takes your stuff, you do not have a right to free revenge. If you want it that bad, take time out from your min-maxed PvE clicking to earn it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, just change your behaviour so you are not vulnerable to gankers again. New Eden is a harsh, dark place where your safety is entirely in your hands.


The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1072 - 2015-02-09 10:31:33 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:

If you want to dispense justice, do it in LoSec. You'll never get what you're looking for as long as CONCORD and FacPo stand in your way.


Why would a miner dispense justice to people that had nothing to do with him?

Hiasa Kite wrote:

Bounty hunting does not pay. In fact it cannot pay, not without leaving itself open to exploitation.


Then there is no way practical way for a victim to dispense justice against his attacker.


You mean there is no cheap way.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Siegfried Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#1073 - 2015-02-09 12:05:40 UTC
yeah how many people are actually hyperdunking? serious question
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1074 - 2015-02-09 12:07:17 UTC
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote:
yeah how many people are actually hyperdunking? serious question

From what I've seen on the killboards, maybe 10-20 are involved so far.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1075 - 2015-02-09 12:41:18 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:

Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.


And again with the outright lies.

There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1076 - 2015-02-09 13:32:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.


And again with the outright lies.

There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player.



+1

Look at the words that poster uses. "Justice" , "Victim" etc. It all reinforces my belief that when i see such postings, the problem lies in the posters general incompatibility with the kind of game EVE is rather than some glaring issue with game mechanics.
Valterra Craven
#1077 - 2015-02-09 14:17:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

It is when you are playing an MMO that rewards having and knowing how/when to use social skills.


Choosing to forgo awards to play at your own pace is not incompetence.
Valterra Craven
#1078 - 2015-02-09 14:19:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Refusing to work with others or use any other tools however is.


No, it isn't.
Valterra Craven
#1079 - 2015-02-09 14:20:07 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:

Go to LoSec and find out.


What does lo-sec have to do with ganking?

Hiasa Kite wrote:

Not in HiSec, no. It was never intended to offer that kind of play.


Some sandbox.
Valterra Craven
#1080 - 2015-02-09 14:21:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

You mean there is no cheap way.


No, I mean there is no practical way.