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Efficient PvP Ship
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Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#1 - 2011-12-20 20:34:34 UTC
So after burning the requisite score of frigates, I'd like to think I have a grasp of PvP. I know generally when to run and when to shoot, what kinds of fits different ships tend to fight, I'm proficient at D scanning and all that good stuff. Now I feel that an upgrade to my trusty Merlin is in order, but I'm kind of stuck as to where to go from here. I looked at the T2 variants of my Merlin, and found them to be a bit slow, or lacking in DPS. I also remembered all the fights I had to pass over in lowsec because I was on station/gate in a frigate, and as such couldn't initiate a fight there. Evil

So then I started to look at bigger ships. Destroyers seem fun, but they still have roughly the same tank as far as gateguns are concerned. Cruisers look alright, the arbitrator and vexor look fun to drone things to death with, and the Thorax or Rupture pack a punch, but they still seem limited in fitting or fragile.

Not wanting to fly anything above 100m per hull unless it would prove capable of at least breaking even, my last hope was battlecruisers. The new Tier 3 models are fun to look at, but large guns and ~30k EHP are not a solo ship. This leaves the old standbys, unless I'm passing over something. My skills are better for shields and guns, but I'd be willing to train into missiles or armor or whatever it takes to make a ship work.


TL; DR
Need cost-effective PvP ship for solo or very small gang work in lowsec or npc 0.0
Cost effective is not the same as cheap, but cheap helps. T1 insurance is a plus, but cheap or very resilient T2 will be given due consideration. Thank you.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2011-12-20 20:40:58 UTC
I'd probably roll in a Ferox, Moa, or Brutix just because people haven't adjusted to their new power (T1 cruiser roam, Moa style: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-2F [Blog post]), but a PODLA nano drake is pretty badass too.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2011-12-20 21:00:54 UTC
Hurricane is what you are looking for. Drake as well but you are more into guns. Brutix is passable but not great.

[Hurricane, Shieldcane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x1


You can replace a Gyro with a Nano for speed, Hail is absolutely Brutal now as well. Those medium Nuets relly do help you out.

[Brutix, IonStorm]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5

With an RCU II you can jam on Neutron Blasters easy enough. You can also through Nano's as well or more Magstabs. Best to role with Hammerheads and have other ships bring the Warriors. Go all DPS on your targets.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#4 - 2011-12-20 21:06:03 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

With an RCU II you can jam on Neutron Blasters easy enough. You can also through Nano's as well or more Magstabs. Best to role with Hammerheads and have other ships bring the Warriors. Go all DPS on your targets.


You should only be 2% over grid with a Neutron Brutix. One of the big changes was that you could now drop down to a PDU or ACR (if you wanted 3 MFS, TE, DC).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#5 - 2011-12-20 21:12:58 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'd probably roll in a Ferox, Moa, or Brutix just because people haven't adjusted to their new power (T1 cruiser roam, Moa style: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-2F [Blog post]), but a PODLA nano drake is pretty badass too.

-Liang

You're right, I had kind of blown those hybrid boats off because of old prejudices Lol
I've head of this PODLA drake, but I'm unfamiliar with the specifics, do you have the fit?
Also I like the cane fit, but it seems a little on the thin side. I know you're supposed to kite with it, but it still makes me a little nervous, although coming from the Merlin it's positively chunky.
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2011-12-20 21:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Liang Nuren wrote:

You should only be 2% over grid with a Neutron Brutix. One of the big changes was that you could now drop down to a PDU or ACR (if you wanted 3 MFS, TE, DC).

-Liang

OP Liang is not going off my fit but ditching a Large Shield Extender II for an Invuln Field II which puts you at 2% over. An RCU I works with the Duel Extender fit but you need max grid skills but you can jump down to a Meta Shield Extender. If you use an Invuln you will want to switch out the Resist Rigs to Core Defense Rigs as they are stacking penalized.

Both have around the same amount of tank but the Invuln takes a little Cap and can be overheated. It also does not puch up your Sig Rad.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#7 - 2011-12-20 21:22:46 UTC
Too bad the Brutix has an armor rep bonus instead of something more useful, like tracking or MWD cap use. Is there such a thing as a Nano Ferox? Or a viable ship with medium railguns? Finally, how much of a priority should BC 5 be?

Thanks for all the input!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2011-12-20 21:36:29 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:
Too bad the Brutix has an armor rep bonus instead of something more useful, like tracking or MWD cap use. Is there such a thing as a Nano Ferox? Or a viable ship with medium railguns? Finally, how much of a priority should BC 5 be?

Thanks for all the input!


I wouldn't nano a Ferox... and BC5 is one of the most important skills I've ever trained.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Alara IonStorm
#9 - 2011-12-20 21:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Dibblerette wrote:
Too bad the Brutix has an armor rep bonus instead of something more useful, like tracking or MWD cap use. Is there such a thing as a Nano Ferox? Or a viable ship with medium railguns? Finally, how much of a priority should BC 5 be?

Thanks for all the input!

Medium Rails don't really have a solid platform without a Dmg Bonus and Opt Bonus yet. Following the Naga they will hopefully look into that. Battlecruiser V is a good priority I never regretted it for a moment.

Another thought crossed my mind. I have been working on a Battleship fit that costs the same as a Tier 2 BC after insurance.

[Armageddon, Cheap]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II

Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Energy Burst Aerator I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]


Berserker II x5


I calculated the cost to be 79 Mil ISK. It works fine with Meta 4 (About 70mil total) but lacking Scorch you would want to ditch the NAP for a TE and possibly the Sebo for a TC II. 110K EHP and around 600 Gun DPS. Not great compared to the 150mil Megapulse Trimark type but after insurance your cost is about the same as a Drake or a Cane.

I plan to test her out with Meta 4 this month and T2 in early Feburary. I brought up Cruise Missiles and T2 L Projectiles so I have to wait a bit on the training till she is maxed.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#10 - 2011-12-20 21:43:29 UTC
Wow, didn't realize you could get a capable BS that cheap! I've not got around to getting any T2 large weapon yet, besides torpedos for my bombers of course Cool but I'll keep that in mind. Now I'm assuming there's more to a nano ship then just slapping on a nanofiber structure. I assume it's a playstyle, correct? Kiting and keeping range instead of just brawling it out? That would lend itself rather well to the longer range weapons, so I can see why the blaster Ferox or Brutix would be less than ideal. What would you consider the minimum speed/agility/dps at range for a ship to count as "Nano?"
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#11 - 2011-12-20 21:44:11 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

[Armageddon, Cheap]


I know you're going to crucify me, but a shield gank nano Armageddon actually works way better than you might think. I've got a friend that flies them and while I may not agree with the fit its undeniably very effective. I've seen him engage (and win) at 3v20 odds including them having caps on the field.

I'm not sure if this has more to do with him being ******* ballsy as hell or the ffitting being really good.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-12-20 21:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
BC V is regarded as one of the best skills to train for solo/small gang roaming because BCs are so cost effective.

Also +1 for the Geddon:

[Armageddon, lowsec]
Large Armor Repairer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor
Warp Disruptor II

Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Berserker II x5

The neutralizer does wonders for its soloing ability. This fit is also better than the one posted before, unfortunately more expensive.

Edit: adjusted fit
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#13 - 2011-12-20 21:55:46 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
BC V is regarded as one of the best skills to train for solo/small gang roaming because BCs are so cost effective.

Also +1 for the Geddon:

[Armageddon, lowsec].

Seems like the lack of prop mod isn't TOO bad, because with 3 plates you're not going anywhere fast anyways, right?

And thanks for the BS fits guys, but I'm currently looking at sub-BS stuff, but I've saved those for later.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-12-20 22:29:05 UTC
+1 for blaster moa/ferox/brutix

Everyone underestimates them atm but they've gotten better.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#15 - 2011-12-20 23:07:23 UTC
The shield nano-geddon is fun but the cap is a ***** and the EHP is very underwhelming as soon as you run into anything that can hit out to your Scorch range - for soloing I'd much rather have a nano drake/harb/cane, but in gangs the DPS it can provide is a wonderful thing.

If you're thinking blaster ships, take a look at the shield gank Celestis as well, it's surprisingly decent.

m0cking bird
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-12-20 23:14:39 UTC
The most cost effective ship classes in my opinion are destroyers, frigates and cruisers. All tech one and maybe the Taranis.

Assault ships are effective, but outclassed in most cases by destroyers in the past and even more so now. Obviously velocity and signature radius are weaknesses.Most viable being the Thrasher and Coercer.

The Taranis is well rounded and priced to as close to perfection as a ship can get.

The best cruiser in terms of price compared to performance is the Rupture. The only other tech one cruiser that is just slightly inferior to the Rupture is the Vexor. A rail-Thorax is also pretty viable. Along with blaster's on a Thorax. However, the aforementioned cruisers are still in a class all their own.

Tech one frigates are also pretty good. Tristan, and Rifter are the most viable.

These ships all excel @ guerilla warfare. Some skirmish and others do hit hard and run.

Sooner or later I'll limit myself to this for the most part. Provided you stick with these ships. You should easily be able to make isk while pvping. Dropped mods etc...

Again, the focus of above ships are focused on doing as much damage as possible on a target and getting out. Or skirmishing.


-proxyyyy
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#17 - 2011-12-20 23:42:05 UTC
m0cking bird wrote:
The most cost effective ship classes in my opinion are destroyers, frigates and cruisers. All tech one and maybe the Taranis.

Assault ships are effective, but outclassed in most cases by destroyers in the past and even more so now. Obviously velocity and signature radius are weaknesses.Most viable being the Thrasher and Coercer.

The Taranis is well rounded and priced to as close to perfection as a ship can get.

The best cruiser in terms of price compared to performance is the Rupture. The only other tech one cruiser that is just slightly inferior to the Rupture is the Vexor. A rail-Thorax is also pretty viable. Along with blaster's on a Thorax. However, the aforementioned cruisers are still in a class all their own.

Tech one frigates are also pretty good. Tristan, and Rifter are the most viable.

These ships all excel @ guerilla warfare. Some skirmish and others do hit hard and run.

Sooner or later I'll limit myself to this for the most part. Provided you stick with these ships. You should easily be able to make isk while pvping. Dropped mods etc...

Again, the focus of above ships are focused on doing as much damage as possible on a target and getting out. Or skirmishing.


-proxyyyy


The Harpy and Hawk both do pretty well against destroyers. I'd estimate each of my Harpy losses costs me ~25 mil and I probably get about that much back (maybe more?) in just loot+salvage. One of the key money making opportunities for pirates is salvaging T2 wrecks, BTW - so make sure that you at least pack a salvager in your cargo hold. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#18 - 2011-12-20 23:45:23 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Hurricane is what you are looking for. Drake as well but you are more into guns. Brutix is passable but not great.

[Hurricane, Shieldcane]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x1


You can replace a Gyro with a Nano for speed, Hail is absolutely Brutal now as well. Those medium Nuets relly do help you out.




This is the best choice IMO, but the fit is slightly off. Use an anti EM rig and drop one of the buffer rigs. Do drop a gyro for a nano, and I've found barrage to be best ammo to have loaded as default until you know your target and want to change.

There is a great arty fit too.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#19 - 2011-12-20 23:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dibblerette
Liang Nuren wrote:
m0cking bird wrote:
Good advice


The Harpy and Hawk both do pretty well against destroyers. I'd estimate each of my Harpy losses costs me ~25 mil and I probably get about that much back (maybe more?) in just loot+salvage. One of the key money making opportunities for pirates is salvaging T2 wrecks, BTW - so make sure that you at least pack a salvager in your cargo hold. :)

-Liang


If your Harpy fit isn't classified, I'd love to see it Big smile
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#20 - 2011-12-20 23:49:49 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
m0cking bird wrote:
Good advice


The Harpy and Hawk both do pretty well against destroyers. I'd estimate each of my Harpy losses costs me ~25 mil and I probably get about that much back (maybe more?) in just loot+salvage. One of the key money making opportunities for pirates is salvaging T2 wrecks, BTW - so make sure that you at least pack a salvager in your cargo hold. :)

-Liang


If you're Harpy fit isn't classified, I'd love to see it Big smile


http://kb.heretic-army.biz/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=58357

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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