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Tengu Problem

Author
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#21 - 2015-02-04 14:21:58 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:


Check your missile (not launcher) info
your looking for 2 values

Flight Time
Velocity

now do a sum

FTxV=R

where R is Range



In fact it's rather a product than a sum.
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-02-04 14:28:50 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:
Either give me something of what you're smoking or link me that tornado fit. Because my 1-minute EFT warrior'd budget Tengu has 45k EHP (all t2, no faction mods) on its weakest resist (that being explosive @69,4%). I'd like to see a tornado alpha-ing that.

(Just FYI, an all lvl V tornade with a full rack of 1400', 4 faction Gyro's and Domination Ammo alpha's for just over 13K and you'd be crazy to gank in that).


Most Tengus don't run EM resists when they're doing guristas missions meaning they have exactly 13k EHP towards EMP, and that assumes Shield management 5 which most won't have. 4 gyro + domi ammo + rigs + implants = 13+K volley. Add TC and painters to it and you can one shot them.

It becomes a whole lot easier if you do so in their mission :)


Most mission Tengu's use the +shield amount subsystem, or the +resist subsystem both of which increase their EHP to well beyond 13K. They also tend to run a Damage Control II in the 4th lowslot as the 4th BCU doesn't really add any worthwhile DPS. And even if they don't and go for full DPS, it's still more than 13K.

Now of course, in the worst case scenario, some idiot does use the shield boost amount subsystem, which makes them trade in a midslot for a lowslot. In that case there is exactly 0 benefit of putting in anything BUT an EHP-mod in the 5th lowslot, with Damage Control being the most obvious choice. I suppose one could technically run 5 BCU's and then have 13k-ish EHP, but that's stretching the edges of reality and certainly not something I'd base my ganking strategy off.

Now, in my experience, most mission Tengu's *do* run an EM hardner, because you can just put the DCU II, EM II and Invul II and have sufficient omnitank for every mission you can get and you don't have to mess about with refitting between missions if you get some Mercenary Mission or an Angel Extravaganza.

But, let's assume every Tengu user has crap skills and craptacular fits and do indeed have ~13k EHP.

Your target painters and tracking computers don't actually increase your volley damage. They make sure you actually get to hit your target in the first place and deal said volley damage to it. A 1400mm howitzer has a signature resolution of 400m. A Tengu has a signature of 150m. More if he uses a shield extender, but we already established that you cannot volley him if he does. With three target painters II pointed at it, at maxed skills, this will be about 325m. A Tornado doesn't actually have sufficient CPU for such a fitting, but let's just assume it does.

Under the rather odd assumption that a signature tanked Tengu (because that's what they do) is sitting still in his mission, at optimal range from your warp-in point, (which would even be odder given that he is sitting still), you STILL are not going to do 13k volley damage to it. It's just not going to happen.

Now, I concur that OP should not be anywhere near a Tengu, given what he asked. I also concur that OP is exactly the kind of player that *does* get ganked in his mission Tengu. But that's not because you can 1-volley him with a Tornado.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#23 - 2015-02-04 14:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:
Most mission Tengu's use the +shield amount subsystem, or the +resist subsystem both of which increase their EHP to well beyond 13K. They also tend to run a Damage Control II in the 4th lowslot as the 4th BCU doesn't really add any worthwhile DPS.


A large number of them don't.

Also, they don't have to sit still. they tend to move towards the next gate which from the warp in point is a straight line. Around 30-35km, even with a bit of transversal, you'll hit just fine with 2 tracking scripted TC and 2 painters.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-02-04 14:53:30 UTC
just use 2 nados

don't see a problem here vov
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-02-05 08:33:45 UTC
Although a HAMgu can be very useful, it's rather high end if you want it to excel.

btw, you only use 2 types of ammo in a tengu.

Scourge and Mjolnir.

Mjolnir when EM is the weak spot, Scourge for all others, when Kin isn't the weak spot it will be second best and the bonuses on the Tengu make scourge the better choise.

I'm not saying a Tengu can't be ganked, though it ain't as simple as some seem to make it sound, just use common sense.
Kobaxus
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-02-08 17:11:48 UTC
[Tengu, T2 L4 Ass-Kickery]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Target Painter II
10MN Afterburner II (~580m/s, cap stable, depending on skills)

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Defences
EM - 75.9% Therm - 90.9% Kin - 86.4% Exp - 77.4%
Shield HP - 18,014
Signature Radius - 210m

DPS
Standard Scourge - 397dps @ 82.2km
Faction Scourge - 456dps @ 82.2km
Scourge Fury - 535dps @ 61.6km
Scourge Precision - 397dps @ 41.1km (not really worth it since normal ammo has only slightly less damage application and twice the range)

Okay, this has been my L4 mission fit Tengu for some time now. It easily solos every L4, including the higher end ones like Blockade and Worlds Collide. Pure Tech 2, with not a scrap of Faction bling anywhere to be seen. This significantly reduces the gank appeal by a fair amount. Of course, this fit is incredibly tight, needing max or near max fitting skills and a 3% PG implant (which won't exactly break the bank), and additional missile implants are pure gravy just add to the goodness.

Of course, the shield rigs and extender bloom your sig radius up to 210m, but since a lot of your tank comes from your cap stable speed of nearly 600m/s, most turrets will miss you and missiles generally do diddly squat to you. Even if you do get badly webbed, you have a monstrous shield buffer (18k raw shields) plus equally monstrous resists; all of which means you have more than enough time in the world to kill the webbers. With the massive range you have, webbers should be primaried long before they get into web range anyway.

However, even the best ship in the game can get unlucky and take more damage than it can handle. This fit however gives you enough time to align to a celestial for emergency warp out, and enough time to kill any scrammers. L4 missions are largely about positioning, aggro management and target selection. If you're competent, then this fit will see you through 95% of Highsec PVE content without breaking a sweat.

Pro tip: don't aggro spider drones until you absolutely have to; kill as much of the NPC dps as possible before then because you WILL lose your speed tank when the spider drones get you (and they will) and they are a pain in the arse to kill. However, if most of the dps are dead by this point, you can kill them at your leisure without straining your tank.

As for anti-gank, your tank gives you a lot to blap through before CONCORD takes out your would-be gankers. It's unlikely they'll get a web on you if you're paying attention so speed will also help. However, if you do die, take comfort in the fact that the only thing shiny on your ship are the hull itself and subsystems (all of which are destroyed anyway). A lot of effort to get a handful of T2 mods...
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