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Fix for Ishtars online
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#221 - 2015-02-08 06:22:28 UTC
Whatever gets sentries, and is small. A little earlier today, while roaming around Sisi, I was thinking about how sentries have better damage application than large blasters when it comes to shooting towers through forcefields.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2015-02-08 10:03:38 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
It ain't broke so there is no need to fix it.


It most certainly is broke, and it immediately needs to be fixed.


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Ishtars were overpowered then they got set back to a reasonable level


How were they set back to a reasonable level? The 10m/s speed nerf? That did nothing.



no when they dropped the tracking bonus down to 7.5%




Yeah that totally stopped ishtars dead in their tracks.

Wait. No it didn't.

The counter to ishtars remains either a) massive blobbing or b) your own ishtars. This is fundamentally broken.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#223 - 2015-02-08 14:15:21 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:



no when they dropped the tracking bonus down to 7.5%


[/quote]

[sarcasm]
Oh yea, that 2.5% reduction in a tracking BONUS really did a number on Ishtar fleets.
[/sarcasm]

Rivr Luzade wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
We have 4-5 doctrines, and only fly ishtars. It's not because we trained Ishtars, we could easily train something else (most of us can already fly a T3 fleet). We still fly Ishtars because there is no good counter to them except Ishtars.

Eagles work against Ishtars. Cerberus' work against Ishtars. I wonder if MJD CS, like Rail Vultures, work against them. A combination of bombers, dictors and damage works against Ishtars.


Eagles are shooting kinetic/therm, that doubles the Ishtars EHP due to its native T2 resists. Cerbs? Don't make me laugh. Heavy missiles are awful, and RLMLs are limited in range and aren't good for sustained damage.

Bombers and dictors don't work. As soon as the bubble goes up the Ishtars can MWD out of it, and either warp off, or fly away from the bombs. They're too mobile to be hit by a bomb that has a 12 second flight time.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#224 - 2015-02-08 16:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
Tiddle Jr wrote:
What is the next 'flag' ship, cause i think ishtar's days are over soon.


How's that?


And no, Eagles do not counter Ishtars... That suggestion is honestly hilarious. Ishtar's do more damage at more range and its selectable.

I want what you're smoking..
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#225 - 2015-02-08 17:00:18 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?

Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?

-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.

And -10 for laziness.


Capital ships come to mind when reading that obviously emotional retort.

Then again, I've sat back with tears in my eyes for the last 5 years while watching CCP gut our beautiful capital and super capital behemoths to nothingness all for the sake of these sh1tty sub caps that "must be worth something" in a cap fight.

So I for one would welcome the lazy solution of nerfing Isthars into uselessness... or deleted even. Even if its just for trolling value.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#226 - 2015-02-08 17:05:37 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?

Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?

-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.

And -10 for laziness.


Capital ships come to mind when reading that obviously emotional retort.

Then again, I've sat back with tears in my eyes for the last 5 years while watching CCP gut our beautiful capital and super capital behemoths to nothingness all for the sake of these sh1tty sub caps that "must be worth something" in a cap fight.

So I for one would welcome the lazy solution of nerfing Isthars into uselessness... or deleted even. Even if its just for trolling value.



I think the game would actually improve if they were removed entirely
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#227 - 2015-02-09 07:06:40 UTC
For the good of New Eden, this thread needs a bump.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2015-02-09 13:07:33 UTC
"This" chewing gum has already lost it's flavor.

Ishtars deserve a changes not the sentries. It is a right time to look and start training for the next epic ship until it' s come to the same end as little ishtar.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Minarete
Celestial Tomb
#229 - 2015-02-09 14:17:17 UTC

There must be a way CCP could add something like "Drone Fatigue" to ships using a lager drone on a smaller ship?
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2015-02-09 14:25:25 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Whatever gets sentries, and is small. A little earlier today, while roaming around Sisi, I was thinking about how sentries have better damage application than large blasters when it comes to shooting towers through forcefields.

I'm currently on my laptop, but you gave me an idea. Do sentries suffer from "signature resolution" (I think that's what it's called) on their weapons? I.e. Neutron Blaster Cannon has a 400 meter sig resolution, doesn't do full damage to stuff with sig radius <400. Adding that + increasing NPC AI's reactiveness to EWAR would be something I would be able to get behind.
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#231 - 2015-02-09 15:54:26 UTC
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


So instead of Ishtars online it will become Myrmidons online?Roll
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#232 - 2015-02-09 17:00:29 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Whatever gets sentries, and is small. A little earlier today, while roaming around Sisi, I was thinking about how sentries have better damage application than large blasters when it comes to shooting towers through forcefields.

I'm currently on my laptop, but you gave me an idea. Do sentries suffer from "signature resolution" (I think that's what it's called) on their weapons? I.e. Neutron Blaster Cannon has a 400 meter sig resolution, doesn't do full damage to stuff with sig radius <400. Adding that + increasing NPC AI's reactiveness to EWAR would be something I would be able to get behind.


They do have a sig res but I am not sure what the actual value is.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#233 - 2015-02-09 18:13:41 UTC
Rapscallion Jones wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


So instead of Ishtars online it will become Myrmidons online?Roll




Yes it would.....as I said earlier.

Blob with any ship and it will appear to be OP.
Sigras
Conglomo
#234 - 2015-02-09 19:02:29 UTC
Rapscallion Jones wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

So instead of Ishtars online it will become Myrmidons online?Roll

The myrm is 50% slower thus easier to catch. Also, it's short one drone and doesnt have the ability to deploy 3 waves of replacements.

You're thinking of Eos online, and even that would be missing a set of replacements...

IMHO the ishtar just needs one change... 75 bandwidth and a 40% role bonus to heavy drone bandwidth. That way it could still deploy a whole flight of heavies but would be limited to 3 sentries at a time bringing its ranged damage in line with all the other HACs
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#235 - 2015-02-09 19:41:14 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Rapscallion Jones wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


So instead of Ishtars online it will become Myrmidons online?Roll




Yes it would.....as I said earlier.

Blob with any ship and it will appear to be OP.


Umm... Myrmidon Is half the speed, with twice the Sig, no MWD bloom reduction, t1 resists, less bay, no tracking bonus, no added control range....

Sounds much closer to balance to me.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#236 - 2015-02-10 03:53:44 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Whatever gets sentries, and is small. A little earlier today, while roaming around Sisi, I was thinking about how sentries have better damage application than large blasters when it comes to shooting towers through forcefields.

I'm currently on my laptop, but you gave me an idea. Do sentries suffer from "signature resolution" (I think that's what it's called) on their weapons? I.e. Neutron Blaster Cannon has a 400 meter sig resolution, doesn't do full damage to stuff with sig radius <400. Adding that + increasing NPC AI's reactiveness to EWAR would be something I would be able to get behind.

Not sure what you mean here so an attempt at an answer.

Yes the drones themselves hava a sig radius 100meters.

As far as their guns are concerned they use the same formula for figuring damage as any other turret based weapo in in the game.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Garde_II
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2015-02-10 09:49:22 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Whatever gets sentries, and is small. A little earlier today, while roaming around Sisi, I was thinking about how sentries have better damage application than large blasters when it comes to shooting towers through forcefields.

I'm currently on my laptop, but you gave me an idea. Do sentries suffer from "signature resolution" (I think that's what it's called) on their weapons? I.e. Neutron Blaster Cannon has a 400 meter sig resolution, doesn't do full damage to stuff with sig radius <400. Adding that + increasing NPC AI's reactiveness to EWAR would be something I would be able to get behind.

Not sure what you mean here so an attempt at an answer.

Yes the drones themselves hava a sig radius 100meters.

As far as their guns are concerned they use the same formula for figuring damage as any other turret based weapo in in the game.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Garde_II


Signature resolution =/= Signature Radius.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2015-02-10 09:59:43 UTC
Bouncer II is sig res 400m



Make them apply damage like missiles. FIXED Lol
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2015-02-10 10:44:31 UTC
C'mon guys where are the bright ideas?

Honestly your let's nerf, cut, reduce reminds me tears and nothing else.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#240 - 2015-02-11 03:53:06 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Signature resolution =/= Signature Radius.

Correction noted, thank you.