CSM Campaigns

Honestly, most exploits exist because of loopholes created with shoddy or incomplete definitions. At the same time CCP runs into the issue of over defining and by extension "defining" accepted exploits. This is kind of what happened originally with IS boxer and 3rd party programs. They have specifically said multi-boxing is allow but removed a tool from multi-boxers. While I understand their ability to do so they have failed, and it seems on purpose, to adequately define the limitations and complete reasoning behind the changes.

Multi-boxers are generally extremely worried about keeping their accounts active, which means following the rules. We need these better defined or we risk losing our hard earned accounts. Loopholes are bad because they become widespread and then become accepted and then we run into the same issue, CCP changes their minds, and people either get angry, lose accounts, or quit the game.

We want definition, the majority of multi-boxers I have spoken with simply want to know why and what they can do. Most is clearly defined but alot is not.

I am not sure if you gain much sympathy with your campaign if you basically support cheaters.

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There seems to be allot of ... well confusion I suppose.

There is a few different area's of multi-boxing that tend to get blended. Do people own multiple accounts? yes. Do People play the game with multiple accounts? Yes.

The question is How do they play the game with multiple accounts. Specifically how do they do it.

The main situation is that the typical human can't do two things at once without assistance from programs, machines, automation.

Now a person can train themselves to be that good, switching accounts back and forth to input commands, but people have a limit to the speed of doing that before mistakes are made. When you get to this level, a person then needs assistance to reduce the mistakes made. This is where automation comes in.

Lets talk about three basic commands, approach, f1, target.

If you have three accounts, switching back and forth to input these three commands takes time, skill, and there is a lag where mistakes can be made. I may be able to tell my three accounts to approach, but I may forget to hit f1, I may forget to target, I may forget to do one of 100 things.

We all see this as acceptable in the game.

The problem I have (and I can suppose most of the community does), is when the person uses a piece of software, something to automate those three commands, so they don't have to think about it. Reducing mistakes, and making the person a more effective pilot. Three issues come up with this aspect of gameplay (and it is a method of gameplay).

1. The player is relying on automation to multiply their effectiveness. Meaning that there is no requirement for them to train, to obtain the skills to manage three accounts, as all they would have to do is now manage one, and the others will follow in suit. It "should" makes them a worse pilot, BUT whether it does or not does not matter as their margin of error has shrunk to almost zero. Their total focus is just on one single screen, pressing a single button, and not mass managing multiple accounts and inputting commands to them all (the software handles that). Since the margin shrinks to zero, they can multiply their effectiveness by increasing their account numbers beyond what any normal human can manage.


2. The automation removes the person from interacting with the game as a whole. There is no need for grouping, no need for organization. You show up with your army, a single person with their own mercenary force, to perform a role that takes a organized group months to train for, done flawlessly every time. The best way to handle a situation is by dealing with it yourself. Forget the group, you can handle all of one aspect of the game yourself. Want your own fleet with no mistakes, make 30 accounts and manage them all at once. No arguments, no yelling, no organizing, its just you with your army of ... slaves.


3. Automated Multiboxing has been a plague on many games. From people taking over areas of a game themselves (Lineage), to communities banning the practice absolutely in order to force people to organize and interact (project 1999). We've seen armies of multiboxers in games, and the only people that like the multiboxers with the automated software, is the multiboxer. Everybody else sees it as spoiling the game play (from pvp arenas full of solo multiboxed pvp armies), to the handling of entire aspects of a game due to the ability for a perfect play (bombing wings in Eve). Now does anybody have a issue with people playing multiple accounts? No. Do they have issues with people playing multiple accounts through a piece of software? I do. I can't talk to you, I can't interact with you, I can't group with you, because you do everything perfectly, alone, with no need for my help, my interaction, my capabilities. My own skills screw you up. There is nothing I can do better than you because your software inputs are faster than me, there is no need to relay a command to me because it takes 3 seconds to get to me over coms, and for me to react, when you have already targeted, shot, and probably killed the threat. Essentially, I am relegated to a support role, while you direct, perform, star and handle the entire main stage of the performance. If I was not there, it would not matter as you would log in another account, add it into your input program, and become more effective without me.

I have zero issues with people having 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 200 accounts. I don't care if they log them in at once to perform a project. I have a issue with them being able to be better than everybody by using a computer input program to replace me. Now if you have 200 accounts, 200 monitors, and are able to interact with them all manually, then DAMN you are good. But for you yourself to press one button, perform the task of those other 199 people, and never have any error or mistake made but your own.... You kill the interaction and soul of social game-play (because why socialize).

Just my feelings on it. With that said, What part of the multiboxing community do you represent? What is it specifically do you want done or seen for Eve. I haven't really read an actual stance.

I've asked this question to other Eve Media participants, be it podcasters, bloggers or video casters, so I will ask you the same question.

I have a question in regards to being a participant in the Eve Media community. With all of the leaks, the controversy surrounding several Eve Media participants, going all the way back to the start of CSM9 and now with the latest drama surrounding FunkyBacon... Do you think it's wise to run ?

I personally as a content creator think, at this point in time, it's gonna set you back as a content creator, in time, as well as in having a voice that can speak his mind openly without the NDA lurking in the background.

Don't you think being a content creator would serve the community a lot better then you could as a CSM ?

I have quite a few stances on my blog and in my original post for CSM.

- Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade changes
- Ice changes for ventures (still need to blog about this one)
- NPE for WH's

Multi-boxing specific:
- Better PR for multi-boxers
- Better EULA definition and enforcement
- Provide a CCP - Multi-boxer conduit for discussion

http://www.bobinmyhole.com/angrod-for-csm/

Actually I am trying to separate them, but iPhone typing isn't that great. What I was trying to do is separate out what end of multiboxing you want. I suppose I'll try this.

Multiple accounts
Multiple accounts while using a 3rd party program to monitor them
Multiple accounts while using a 3rd party program to send commands to every account at once by pressing one button.
Multiple accounts while using a 3rd party program to make decisions for you, so you are afk making a pizza (botting).

Well remove botting in total because no one wants that, yourself included.

A monitoring program nobody is arguing about (such as replicating your desktop so you can see what's going on on another account). Heck I tool around with eve previewer myself because I have two accounts, one monitor. I can't input commands into that other account without first clicking it, bringing it to the front, and interacting with it, which causes me to lose control of my primary account (it's no longer in focus). I treat that program as a poor mans second monitor. You use isboxer in that role too. Nobody has a problem with that.

It's when you, the one person, can control and interact with every account simultaneously, give commands to everything at once, and can both execute and perform jobs which would take a group of people to do (sometimes multiple groups), but you do it solo. We're not talking about you magically switching between 50 accounts pressing f1 each time with such speed you melt your keyboard. I'm not talking about out-shipping content (battle cruisers in level 1 missions). I'm talking about having your own army to perform group functions as if they were solo content, and using programs to control the entire thing. Full nightmare fleets in incursions controlled by one guy, full bombing wings controlled by one guy, full Ishtar gangs run by one person, full mining enclaves run by a single person (those aren't that hard to run though). You remove the need for people, actual breathing people from the game when you, the solo person, can replace them in total.

We currently have this exact mechanic as a part of the game, it's called drone assist. Ccp decided to nerf it down because the community complained. People are still advocating for drone assist to be removed entirely. The difference here is that with drone assist, the person, each individual, can still screw up. The fc could get headshot, then it's confusion until number two takes over. Hot mics', arguments, decision making, target calling, the need to type a message, copy paste a dscan report, check if the people are actually flying doctrine fits, or happen to fit some billion ISk loot piñata, jump commands, escalations, friendships, asking for help, the joy of playing.. Dies. Eve is anti social to a lot of people. If you want to do group content that is otherwise impossible without using that program or others like it, then it should stay impossible.

Now do I care if you want to solo or not, no. I care when you want to remove the content meant for groups by doing it all yourself. When the program replaces the rest of the group, you kill the point of grouping.

Honestly, I hate playing against isBoxers because Our group activity vs group activity turns into our group against one guy and his army of accounts. It wasn't a fun group interaction, it wasn't pvp, it was our group trying to break down the wall 1 guy made with his 100 accounts. Maybe I am just old fashion. But to even ask if you can use an inputting program in this game... I am just a bit of an ideologue, who thinks good fights with like minded people is better than good fights with an atomitom.

It's been said 100 times before, and it will continue to be talked about in the near future.

With all of that said, as you are representing the wormhole group, I do look forward to the townhall.

I will hopefully be there to talk about WH stuff, not multi-boxing just FYI. Yes, this will be a never ending debate lol.

Angrod,

You have taken a pretty polarizing approach to your campaign in regard to multi-boxing. Although I appreciate your perspective as an individual advocate for your playstyle, you aren't running for CSMX to be an individual advocate; you are running for CSMX to be a representative and advocate for the playerbase.

Your responses to players who advocate against your playstyle has shown that you are defensive (which is fine for an individual advocate), but as a representative, you shouldn't polarize your constituency. I don't agree with your style of gameplay personally, and personally I think using a third party automation to run multiply clients at the same time is akin to cheating. I multibox when I've done PI, Cyno's/Capital Movements, Mining, Manufacturing, and occasionally Scouting. I have never used an automation service to do this, and I've sometimes messed up and lost ships, where I wouldn't have if I had used a third party service.

The point is that as a representative, you have to be able to represent this playerbase, and if a strong majority of your constituency says that they don't want automation services allowed for multi-boxing, then you have to represent that view to CCP. If you can't do that, you aren't suited for the position and shouldn't be running for CSM.