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What will happen to Dust 514 when next bunch of consoles comes out?

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#21 - 2011-12-20 21:13:14 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
... download the updated version and play that on your existing account.


That "updated version" is what concerns me. CCP failed massively with their first release of a "walking around" product -- CQ and WiS in general, so I sort of lack faith in their ability to maintain two or three (depending on whether you count the PC WiS) versions of the same "walking around" game at the same time.

If they can do it, great! But... I can't shake off the feeling that CCP might be biting off more than they can chew.


No offense, but what they hell are you talking about?

DUST has little, if anything, to do with WIS.

Different engine completely, for starters.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#22 - 2011-12-20 21:14:53 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
... download the updated version and play that on your existing account.


That "updated version" is what concerns me. CCP failed massively with their first release of a "walking around" product -- CQ and WiS in general, so I sort of lack faith in their ability to maintain two or three (depending on whether you count the PC WiS) versions of the same "walking around" game at the same time.

If they can do it, great! But... I can't shake off the feeling that CCP might be biting off more than they can chew.


No offense, but what they hell are you talking about?

DUST has little, if anything, to do with WIS.

Different engine completely, for starters.


... wait, what?! Oh god, I just googled it, and it uses UE3.

I AM OFFICIALLY DUMB.

/me goes to cry in a corner

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2011-12-20 21:15:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Also keep in mind that supporting perhaps two different versions of possible hardware would be a walk in the park compared to coding to support the innumerable variations of hardware available for the PC.


PC has better abstraction of its millions of possibilities via libraries like SDL. Eve also is written in Python, which is famous for its portability. Beyond that though, I have no idea how Eve is coded in the backend in this regard, so I'm not going to speculate.


The advantage of the console has always been that a developer knew EXACTLY what he was dealing with. It allows for them to do much, much more with much, much less.

It simplifies the design and coding process to the extreme.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2011-12-20 21:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
... download the updated version and play that on your existing account.


That "updated version" is what concerns me. CCP failed massively with their first release of a "walking around" product -- CQ and WiS in general, so I sort of lack faith in their ability to maintain two or three (depending on whether you count the PC WiS) versions of the same "walking around" game at the same time.

If they can do it, great! But... I can't shake off the feeling that CCP might be biting off more than they can chew.


No offense, but what they hell are you talking about?

DUST has little, if anything, to do with WIS.

Different engine completely, for starters.


... wait, what?! Oh god, I just googled it, and it uses UE3.

I AM OFFICIALLY DUMB.

/me goes to cry in a corner


No worries at all. I can easily see how one would assume that considering the timing of the release of WIS just before DUST.

Be happy, things look a lot rosier than you feared. This is good news. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ai Shun
#25 - 2011-12-20 21:20:04 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
... download the updated version and play that on your existing account.


That "updated version" is what concerns me. CCP failed massively with their first release of a "walking around" product -- CQ and WiS in general, so I sort of lack faith in their ability to maintain two or three (depending on whether you count the PC WiS) versions of the same "walking around" game at the same time.

If they can do it, great! But... I can't shake off the feeling that CCP might be biting off more than they can chew.


They are different development teams. And this time it's not CCP gunning it alone, but they have Sony for support.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#26 - 2011-12-20 21:21:47 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Actually my current rig shares no component with my computer in 2003 anymore (oh no my pants are down) but that's because I got a job since then, and decided that playing any game at less than max graphics was unacceptable.

However, my process to my current gaming rig has not been "buy a whole new computer". It usually works along the lines of "buy whatever part you need to plug the performance hole in your computer". Just like when I put a Reactive plate on my Wolf!
The reality is, by the time you actually need to update one component, you need to update another (and the first one is the GPU and the second one is the CPU), and by that time there are new buses and interfaces out, so that means new mobo, which of course supports new RAM and then really whats left. Also by that time a new console is out too.

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#27 - 2011-12-20 21:22:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

The advantage of the console has always been that a developer knew EXACTLY what he was dealing with. It allows for them to do much, much more with much, much less.

It simplifies the design and coding process to the extreme.


That explains how BF3 can run at all on consoles. I suppose I need to stop worrying.

Quote:

No worries at all. I can easily see how one would assume that considering the timing of the release of WIS just before DUST.

Be happy, things look a lot rosier than you feared. This is good news.


I dunno, I am now aproximately 57x more mad at CCP for using WiS as a tech demo for WoD. I was OK with it until now because I thought that in addition to WoD it would be going to a GOOD game, too.

I was also caught being horribly wrong on the internets, I don't think being happy is legal in this situation.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#28 - 2011-12-20 21:29:17 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
The reality is, by the time you actually need to update one component, you need to update another (and the first one is the GPU and the second one is the CPU), and by that time there are new buses and interfaces out, so that means new mobo, which of course supports new RAM and then really whats left. Also by that time a new console is out too.


All the mobo crap only happens if you use Intel. They seem to not know what cross-compatibility between your own products of the same generation means. But yes, all "functional" components (mobo/cpu/gpu/ram) together is similar to buying a new console, if that's what you're getting at. Except that your original system could probably run new games on "low" settings, and the old console couldn't.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#29 - 2011-12-20 21:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Alphane
Crumplecorn wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Eve has survived since 2003, and the computers that originally could run it really well cannot run it anymore. This has been made possible due to the upgrade-able and uniform nature of the PC environment.
You do realise that in this sense consoles are 'upgradable' too? Since by 'upgrade' you obviously mean 'buy a whole new rig'.


Professor Alphane wrote:
All computers use essentially the same hardware, given that I assume the problem with backward compatibilty is.

1. The console producing comapnies DONT WANT TO DO it. For puely commercial reasons ie to encourage developers to develop for the new platform. There would be now sudden need to release GameX PS4 if GameX PS3 ran on PS4's.

2. But it's the same harware you say how do they STOP backward compatability. In that I would assume it's the OS, diffent way of addressing the hardware.
You assume wrong. Unlike terribad PC developers, console developers write for the hardware, which changes. Of course, I'm sure the console companies are quite happy that they have the option for old games not to work on the new hardware.





Do you have experience of this as it's something I'm interested in personally. I'd imagined they use an SDK to actually program, and have the usual set of standard libraries to address hardware. This set of libraries, though it might be known under a diffrent name, is what I was refering to in my post as the consoles 'OS'.

Any clarification would be appreciated. Cheers

/edit also whats 'terribad' mean.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ai Shun
#30 - 2011-12-20 21:42:54 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Do you have experience of this as it's something I'm interested in personally. I'd imagined they use an SDK to actually program, and have the usual set of standard libraries to address hardware. This set of libraries, though it might be known under a diffrent name, is what I was refering to in my post as the consoles 'OS'.

Any clarification would be appreciated. Cheers

/edit also whats 'terribad' mean.


+1

terribad = terrible + bad.

I'd like to know about that as well. My development experience is limited to PCs and related, no consoles. I'd have expected some form of development toolset / SDK as well. Otherwise, how would they make a previous version run on a new generation console? (PS1 - PS2; PS2 - PS3; etc.)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#31 - 2011-12-20 21:43:16 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:

/edit also whats 'terribad' mean.


"Terrible and bad", "terribly bad", etc. It's a portmanteau combination of "terrible" and "bad" and worse than either one.

Edit: Damn, I am terribad at posting quickly.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-12-20 21:45:27 UTC
I don't know, don't have any special power to foresee the future.

Hope that cleared it up a bit..
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#33 - 2011-12-20 21:45:50 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:

/edit also whats 'terribad' mean.


"Terrible and bad", "terribly bad", etc. It's a portmanteau combination of "terrible" and "bad" and worse than either one.

Edit: Damn, I am terribad at posting quickly.



Sorry how terribad of me not to know that Roll

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#34 - 2011-12-20 21:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

The advantage of the console has always been that a developer knew EXACTLY what he was dealing with. It allows for them to do much, much more with much, much less.

It simplifies the design and coding process to the extreme.


That explains how BF3 can run at all on consoles. I suppose I need to stop worrying.

Quote:

No worries at all. I can easily see how one would assume that considering the timing of the release of WIS just before DUST.

Be happy, things look a lot rosier than you feared. This is good news.


I dunno, I am now aproximately 57x more mad at CCP for using WiS as a tech demo for WoD. I was OK with it until now because I thought that in addition to WoD it would be going to a GOOD game, too.

I was also caught being horribly wrong on the internets, I don't think being happy is legal in this situation.


Well, on the plus side of things for Incarna the plan "was" to eventually get to the point where DUST avatars and Incarna avatars could meet face to face in certain multiplayer establishments.... like a lobby or war room. I don't think this was envisioned to be possible right off the bat (I could be wrong) and who knows what the chances are now of that ever happening.

I also hate it when I over look something before I post, and yes indeed it has happened a time or two.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#35 - 2011-12-20 21:56:41 UTC
Computers are not so compatible as you think, luckily devs dont mind doing games for PC then mac so its not too big, then some comps are 64 or 32 that can cause some problems but most places are adapting, Also some people use old OS on computers, but luckly devs created compatible mode for newer OS. Lots of incompatibiltity, then iphone doesnt use flash either or so, is sad.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#36 - 2011-12-20 21:57:54 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Well, on the plus side of things for Incarna the plan "was" to eventually get to the point where DUST avatars and Incarna avatars could meet face to face in certain multiplayer establishments.... like a lobby or war room. I don't think this was envisioned to be possible right off the bat (I could be wrong) and who knows what the chances are now of that ever happening.

I also hate it when I over look something before I post, and yes indeed it has happened a time or two.


Actually if they only use UE3 for the "shooting people" part, it is very possible. They released a bunch of images of what the combat suits will look like, and none of them have visible faces. Nobody has visible faces in the trailer either. Who knows... dual graphics engine game?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#37 - 2011-12-20 22:00:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

The advantage of the console has always been that a developer knew EXACTLY what he was dealing with. It allows for them to do much, much more with much, much less.

It simplifies the design and coding process to the extreme.


That explains how BF3 can run at all on consoles. I suppose I need to stop worrying.

Quote:

No worries at all. I can easily see how one would assume that considering the timing of the release of WIS just before DUST.

Be happy, things look a lot rosier than you feared. This is good news.


I dunno, I am now aproximately 57x more mad at CCP for using WiS as a tech demo for WoD. I was OK with it until now because I thought that in addition to WoD it would be going to a GOOD game, too.

I was also caught being horribly wrong on the internets, I don't think being happy is legal in this situation.


Well, on the plus side of things for Incarna the plan "was" to eventually get to the point where DUST avatars and Incarna avatars could meet face to face in certain multiplayer establishments.... like a lobby or war room. I don't think this was envisioned to be possible right off the bat (I could be wrong) and who knows what the chances are now of that ever happening.

I also hate it when I over look something before I post, and yes indeed it has happened a time or two.


Something I found interesting was that in one of the dev blogs on the Dust 514 site, it was mentioned that the Dust lobbies, the war room and such would be in third person and it had a picture of a helmetless merc. Adding to that, Dust mercs will be in corp chat just like regular EVE pilots... so I'm wondering if they'll have the carbon character creator like we do somehow made compatible with the Unreal 3 engine.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#38 - 2011-12-20 22:04:15 UTC
Here we go:

Quote:
THE WAR ROOM

The life of a mercenary is about fighting, but taking over a planet is no small task, so players will find themselves spending a lot of time in the War Room – a 3D lobby where players can go over their vehicle and character fittings; stock up on items from the corp inventory or the marketplace; chat with fellow corp members or once-off hires; scrutinize potential strategies and just generally get ready for the battles to come. Each War Room supports a maximum of 32 players at once. Players navigate the social spaces in DUST (of which the War Room is the first) in third-person.

Picture



From Dev Blog, Tools of the Trade
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#39 - 2011-12-20 22:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
Professor Alphane wrote:
Do you have experience of this as it's something I'm interested in personally. I'd imagined they use an SDK to actually program, and have the usual set of standard libraries to address hardware. This set of libraries, though it might be known under a diffrent name, is what I was refering to in my post as the consoles 'OS'.
The use an SDK, they don't literally write at assembly level, but it's pretty specific to the hardware AFAIK, especially in the case of the PlayStation which has a history of, eh, 'unusual' hardware. I think the XBoxen actually use a version of DirectX, which is why there are so many PC/Xbox multiplats, it's easier to port them. Hence the "Getting the most out of the system" vs "Easier development" arguments between Sony/Microsoft supporters. But on the playstation, software compatibility from one to the next is basically zero. This is why PS2s incorporate a physical PS1, and early model PS3s incorporated a physical PS2.

That being said, since CCP are using UE3, they probably don't have to worry about nearly as much about hardware stuff as people developing for the platform itself.

(oh, and there's nothing terribad about writing for the PC's more generalised abstraction layer; it just amuses me when people go on about how advanced PC games are when console developers are the ones who have to get the most out of the hardware, so I tend to poke fun at PC devs)

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#40 - 2011-12-20 22:18:30 UTC
I'm still wondering if we will see the release on May 14th. Could the meaning behind the cryptic DUST514 name really be just that simple? Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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