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Being griefed by other industry players.

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Nikola Aivoras
Mercantilist Corporation of New Eden
#141 - 2011-12-20 19:52:41 UTC
Dunno why your fellow industrialists are complaining. If I was in their situation, I'd buy your cheap ships and put them back on the market at the current value.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#142 - 2011-12-20 19:54:15 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Its a pretty simple concept actually, if you chastise someone for doing something you are doing you are an asshat.
Now the word chastising has appeared!

But I'll bite. I don't recall seeing anyone chastise the OP in this thread.

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#143 - 2011-12-20 21:30:15 UTC
i have a friend, he rarely plays. He sent me a chat talking about how cool the new Tornado was but he was strapped for cash and couldn't afford it. Truth or lies, i said "there's a bpc 1 run copy on the contracts market for 8M isk" he sent me 8mil isk, i built him a Tornado and put it up on private contract to him. I already had all the minerals because I make big things and require tons of minerals. so i basically built and made the ship for him for free (almost still cost him the 8mil isk for the bpc).

why would i do this for someone i know IRL in a game that he hardly ever plays and make nothing off it? OMG!! I MUST BE CRAZY! I DID SOMETHING AND DID IT FOR FREE?!!! OMG, NO ISK FOR THE ISK GOD!!!!???!!!WEZALLLZGONNADIEEEZZZ!!1!
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#144 - 2011-12-20 21:31:51 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
why would i do this for someone i know IRL in a game that he hardly ever plays and make nothing off it? OMG!! I MUST BE CRAZY! I DID SOMETHING AND DID IT FOR FREE?!!! OMG, NO ISK FOR THE ISK GOD!!!!???!!!WEZALLLZGONNADIEEEZZZ!!1!
Yes, nobody is saying you can't or shouldn't do it. Less caps, more reading next time, k?

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#145 - 2011-12-20 21:42:52 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
why would i do this for someone i know IRL in a game that he hardly ever plays and make nothing off it? OMG!! I MUST BE CRAZY! I DID SOMETHING AND DID IT FOR FREE?!!! OMG, NO ISK FOR THE ISK GOD!!!!???!!!WEZALLLZGONNADIEEEZZZ!!1!
Yes, nobody is saying you can't or shouldn't do it. Less caps, more reading next time, k?


it was a joke....

in regards to reading, i was reading that some replies where talking about ISK maximization and opportunity cost. some people just like to build stuff
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2011-12-20 21:59:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
How does opportunity cost factor into running a hulk while watching season two of Heroes on Netflix?

If time is money then I'd say you are doing pretty well in that respect as a miner considering how little time you are actually putting in for your iskies.

Mr Epeen Cool


This. +1.

... I think....
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#147 - 2011-12-20 22:12:45 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
in regards to reading, i was reading that some replies where talking about ISK maximization and opportunity cost. some people just like to build stuff
I've spent the entire thread talking about opportunity cost, but I don't care if you mine minerals and then proceed to blow them up if you want to, as long as you don't try to convince me that you didn't lose anything because they were free.

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arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#148 - 2011-12-20 22:20:32 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
in regards to reading, i was reading that some replies where talking about ISK maximization and opportunity cost. some people just like to build stuff
I've spent the entire thread talking about opportunity cost, but I don't care if you mine minerals and then proceed to blow them up if you want to, as long as you don't try to convince me that you didn't lose anything because they were free.


well, i'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. The way i see it is i lost out of $50M+ isk in profit that I could have had and yah i spent time mining those minerals and they do have value but only when i tie value to them. if the minerals to me are throw away minerals and i do not see my time as isk then i really didn't lose anything.....i'm not out any isk, just not taking in the isk i could be...but that's not really a loss you put on the books....opportunity cost is used to determine important financial decisions in real life situations, business or personal....and this is just a game............but to someone else they may see it as "when i log in, if i'm not grinding isk then i'm losing 100M isk/hour" or whatever someone can make to grind their isk. my other point is i build stuff because in most MMO games I have ever played, I have always enjoyed crafting. which isn't always done for profit either.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#149 - 2011-12-20 22:26:04 UTC
Nikola Aivoras wrote:
Dunno why your fellow industrialists are complaining. If I was in their situation, I'd buy your cheap ships and put them back on the market at the current value.


this is actually fun to do when you want slow passive income. Can recall a few times when I bought and resold every unit of a particular module within 10 jumps or so just because I thought people were getting too good of a deal for the item and i had the cash to buy and resell it. didn't even bother picking them up, just did a remote sell. made a good profit margin because they all eventually sold but it was soo spread out over time it felt like nothing.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#150 - 2011-12-20 22:26:21 UTC
OP is an attention whore for posting in General instead of a relevant forum where they might have got a serious answer.
Devil's Call
Social safety
#151 - 2011-12-20 22:33:24 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:


You can pick 3 apples in 5 minutes to sell for a total of $3. Or you can spend an hour making and cooking an apple pie that you can sell for $2 dollars. Are you stupid or something?


Hahaha, I laughed so hard! ******* genius.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#152 - 2011-12-20 22:34:35 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
well, i'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything.
Certain other people are.

arcca jeth wrote:
opportunity cost is used to determine important financial decisions in real life situations, business or personal....and this is just a game
In the context of the game, blowing up the minerals you just spent six hours mining is an important financial desicion. Of course in the context of real life it doesn't matter, but that is true of everything in the game. The opportunity cost is there, but it only exists inside the game.

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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#153 - 2011-12-20 22:44:02 UTC
Borun Tal wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
How does opportunity cost factor into running a hulk while watching season two of Heroes on Netflix?

If time is money then I'd say you are doing pretty well in that respect as a miner considering how little time you are actually putting in for your iskies.

Mr Epeen Cool


This. +1.

... I think....


In that case the opportunity cost is the price you paid for your hulk + fittings and the time it takes to make enough ISK to even up your wallet from buying that hulk, should you get ganked with that hulk you just lost 250mils and are now going 500mils in "the frozen side" of things.
Ofc, you could swap to retriever or even a mining cruiser but your ISK making just bit the bullet big time.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#154 - 2011-12-20 23:18:17 UTC
Why does everything always come down to money? Really. I don't know why, but it seems like all that matters to everyone else is how much ISK they can make. To me, it doesn't matter at all. I'm only playing EVE to have fun, not to earn billions in days. Sure, I wouldn't mind actually reaching a billion, or hell, even 200mil would be a new record for me, but first and foremost, I'm only in it for the fun. You just keep doing whatever it is you think you're doing, while I go manage my manufacturing lines. I can always get someone to buy my junk if I just give them a good enough offer.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#155 - 2011-12-20 23:21:47 UTC
Anshio Tamark wrote:
Why does everything always come down to money?
It doesn't. But, everything can be given a monetary valuation.

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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2011-12-20 23:23:18 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Anshio Tamark wrote:
Why does everything always come down to money?
It doesn't. But, everything can be given a monetary valuation.


Just for sake of it having some value... Sounds good.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#157 - 2011-12-21 01:01:40 UTC
This must be what carebear PvP looks like.
Varr Dorn
Blue Flame Ore Excavations
#158 - 2011-12-21 04:42:32 UTC
Devil's Call wrote:
Varr Dorn wrote:
Devil's Call wrote:
So say an Orca costs 10 tritanium to build, and 10 tritanium sells for 10 isk, but you sell your orca for 9 isk, do you consider that a good use of time?

Maybe my example is too complicated to understand, oh well... at least I tried.

In the following post I use 'you' in the general sense, not directed solely at the quoted poster.

Example: Orca cost 10 tritanium to build. You sell the OP 10 tritanium for 10 isk. You suddenly decide you need an Orca and buy it from the OP for 9 isk. Now the OP has 9 isk and you have 1 isk. Who wins?P


I hope you understand that only the buyer wins, as the seller could've made 10isk without even building an orca.

If other industrialists sell orca's for 12 isk and the OP sells them for 11, sure he makes a profit and if he thinks that that's a fun/useful way to spend his time, then by all means. But in my original example, he's loosing isk.



Other Industrials sell their orcas for 11 isk. The OP sells for 9. The OP loses 1 isk in potential material value. The OP makes a quick sale. According to opportunity cost, isn't an item sitting on the market losing isk too? If you can't sell it, or can't sell it without closely monitoring the market to insure it sells then you are using up your isk-valued time to ensure it sells.

This isn't as prevalent in Eve due to the market set-up, but brick-and-mortar stores have to take into account the value of shelf space...

Idk, I'm no market expert. But I still feel this whole debate is silly, outside the fun of poking at other people. I find the concept of Opportunity cost to be ridiculous. I don't value my time in dollars and cents (or isk) but by what I do with it. The value of enjoyment/happiness is incalculable...even if you're making a dollars and cents/isk loss on occasion
Varr Dorn
Blue Flame Ore Excavations
#159 - 2011-12-21 04:46:30 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
But, everything can be given a monetary valuation.

You sound like Ebenezer ScroogeP Do I get bonus points for a holiday appropriate reference?

There are things in life, even within the small bounds of the universe of Eve that are indefinable in monetary terms.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#160 - 2011-12-21 06:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
Varr Dorn wrote:
You sound like Ebenezer ScroogeP Do I get bonus points for a holiday appropriate reference?

There are things in life, even within the small bounds of the universe of Eve that are indefinable in monetary terms.
Name 3. P
Bonus points for referencing my past, present and future.

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