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Dev blog: Industry & Teams - The Removal of Teams

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Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#181 - 2015-01-03 00:25:58 UTC
John Podiene wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say that the removal of teams was planned from the get go. This move makes sense if you consider the line of thought that ccp wanted to institute a major isk sink and didn't want to have an irate player base, so they introduce the "Teams" as an balance to said isk sink, all under the cover of "industry re-balancing" , only to remove the "teams" part of the equation at an arbitrary date in the future. why woul ccp do this you ask? it's simple, ccp wants the amount of isk in the form of profit to decline so to keep indy players from being able to afford plexes at in-game prices, in other words they want you to pay real money for plex's instead of isk. This makes sense when you combine it with the introduction of features like multi-character training, face re-sculpting and the vanity items requiring aurum which is converted from plex's or uses the plex itself... this all leads me to the conclusion that ccp is purposely trying to drive up plex prices while at the same time trying to lower the amount of isk being made in the game so that it increases their bottom line. That's just my .02 isk. Just fyi when i started in 2011 plex's were only around 350 mil a pop at jita... now they're around 800 -900 mil a pop, amazing how those prices climb....


Tin foil hats man.

It's just bad game design, a mistake was made in the planning process or ccp's expectations didn't meet with reality so they've decided to make a change.

There's no need to look any further than that.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
John Podiene
Fist Of The Red Dragon
#182 - 2015-01-03 05:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: John Podiene
Mharius Skjem wrote:
John Podiene wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say that the removal of teams was planned from the get go. This move makes sense if you consider the line of thought that ccp wanted to institute a major isk sink and didn't want to have an irate player base, so they introduce the "Teams" as an balance to said isk sink, all under the cover of "industry re-balancing" , only to remove the "teams" part of the equation at an arbitrary date in the future. why woul ccp do this you ask? it's simple, ccp wants the amount of isk in the form of profit to decline so to keep indy players from being able to afford plexes at in-game prices, in other words they want you to pay real money for plex's instead of isk. This makes sense when you combine it with the introduction of features like multi-character training, face re-sculpting and the vanity items requiring aurum which is converted from plex's or uses the plex itself... this all leads me to the conclusion that ccp is purposely trying to drive up plex prices while at the same time trying to lower the amount of isk being made in the game so that it increases their bottom line. That's just my .02 isk. Just fyi when i started in 2011 plex's were only around 350 mil a pop at jita... now they're around 800 -900 mil a pop, amazing how those prices climb....


Tin foil hats man.

It's just bad game design, a mistake was made in the planning process or ccp's expectations didn't meet with reality so they've decided to make a change.

There's no need to look any further than that.



tin foil hat..... huh. it wasn't a bad game design. It was a good idea that had a few flaws that could have been fixed over time. tell me this why didn't ccp give it the same amount of time like some other features which are obviously worse game design. i'll give an example. the encounter surveillance systems. i live for the most part in npc null and have yet to see one put up. and just fyi no self respecting ratter would ever put that thing up. The reason for that is 5% gain in bounty isk is not worth the risk. as far as i can tell that thing is basically designed so that big null sec alliances can in effect tax their members more. there are modules released as far back as inferno that get less use than the teams, and let's not forget about about the most underused feature of the game that ccp has yet to remove.... wait for it...... walking in stations! CCP is a company that had a few big flops ie - world of darkness, dust. Those projects cost a lot of money. do you honestly believe that ccp isn't above squeezing their cash cow eve online players just a little more to pad the bottom line a little more? if you don't think again. I personally think that teams are a good feature that require a few tweaks like giving you a notification that you have been outbid like they do with contract auction, and adjusting the bonuses given by said teams.
Dal-Amara Furion
#183 - 2015-01-03 17:09:40 UTC
Just my 2 cents worth, (as a 1 year player) I found very little use for it and opted not to use. I'm not saying it was a bad idea, I just don't think right now is the time for it.

Live Pure, Speak the Truth, Right Wrongs, Be Fair and Be Just... This is not just God's will, this is your obligation to all Humanity.
Unit 340
Systems High Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#184 - 2015-01-11 11:18:18 UTC
At first I thought.. unlimited skill que!!! nice!!...but after a bit of thinking... its not just the ingame skills, but the out of game skills..

example, a lazy 5 year old player that forgets to check his que vs a new skill focused player that is on top of that stuff.

just my thought,, I could be wrong. I think playing EVE when your "not playing" EVE is its own skill.
Tilie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2015-01-12 04:30:14 UTC
To Be Honest,

I was looking forward to hiring teams... but HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT? Do I have to go to them? Not happening. I am not going to make copies and move them, then try to move materials to locations the teams are at, and I have yet to find a big shiny button that says "Find a Team for Hire", with teams up for hire that I can even tempt to come to my station of choice.

Give me an obvious button to hire a team, a team that will travel to me and the station I use. Don't share that team with others at my station until their time is up. Make hundreds of thousands of teams to choose from so the best rated teams are available, when I need them, and when I can afford them... make their pricing go up as their rating type is more heavily used. Give them different attributes; time to completion, material use, hell... throw in a quality measurement that affect either Hull:Armor:Shield HP... and give them a rating... lol... some Fiats are better than others, right? A Cadillac is just a well built Chevrolet that went through a higher quality control process.

The team idea has a lot of good ideas, but I will not pick up and move my industry, putting several billion isks worth of goods at risk just to build something, and I will not move several billion isks worth of materials more than I need to. But I will gladly hire a team to help production if I could easily figure out how, and it wasn't info that was obvious to my competitors that know where I do my work. Seems you can see where the teams are at and if you have a competitor where one is you know you will be taking a hit in certain material or time costs. This type of information may be irrelevant to many, but to a few that still use spreadsheets to figure out what they are doing, it is vital statistics, and should be classified info.

Thats my two cents... give me a big button and bring the teams to me, not me to them.
Darkopus
Perkone
Caldari State
#186 - 2015-01-12 20:16:44 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
John Podiene wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say that the removal of teams was planned from the get go. This move makes sense if you consider the line of thought that ccp wanted to institute a major isk sink and didn't want to have an irate player base, so they introduce the "Teams" as an balance to said isk sink, all under the cover of "industry re-balancing" , only to remove the "teams" part of the equation at an arbitrary date in the future. why woul ccp do this you ask? it's simple, ccp wants the amount of isk in the form of profit to decline so to keep indy players from being able to afford plexes at in-game prices, in other words they want you to pay real money for plex's instead of isk. This makes sense when you combine it with the introduction of features like multi-character training, face re-sculpting and the vanity items requiring aurum which is converted from plex's or uses the plex itself... this all leads me to the conclusion that ccp is purposely trying to drive up plex prices while at the same time trying to lower the amount of isk being made in the game so that it increases their bottom line. That's just my .02 isk. Just fyi when i started in 2011 plex's were only around 350 mil a pop at jita... now they're around 800 -900 mil a pop, amazing how those prices climb....


Tin foil hats man.

It's just bad game design, a mistake was made in the planning process or ccp's expectations didn't meet with reality so they've decided to make a change.

There's no need to look any further than that.


Agreed, there is no tin foil here.

Even when people plex, CCO are still getting cash, as Plex are not seeded into the market, they have to actually be bought for cash. So your whole theory (John Podiene) is shot fromt he start because real money was always paid for a plex in order for it to be "born" into the market in the first place.
MrBowers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2015-01-13 22:22:06 UTC
Teams should only remain in player own space.... period....Roll
Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
#188 - 2015-01-14 22:16:46 UTC
Tilie wrote:
To Be Honest,

I was looking forward to hiring teams... but HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO IT? Do I have to go to them? Not happening. I am not going to make copies and move them, then try to move materials to locations the teams are at, and I have yet to find a big shiny button that says "Find a Team for Hire", with teams up for hire that I can even tempt to come to my station of choice.
.



Teams tab, ^team chartering^, make sure "world" is selected in the filter, find the team you want, enter your system name, enter a bid amount. That was how you did it, but teams are no longer seeded.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#189 - 2015-01-22 20:46:22 UTC
Just reading up on the CSM minutes, came across this little bit:

"CCP Fozzie expressed that the desire was to make it easier to use the current system so that they can get more targeted feedback for any actual changes the underling system needs."

Sounds like something they should have applied to Teams as well. You know, inform people about them and make them easier to understand and interact with so that actual and more directly helpful feedback for the core feature itself can be gathered. Instead of just tossing them up as a new tab on a freshly redesigned window with very little information about how to use them.
Carnalis Alexis
Hermetic Order of The Golden Nebula
#190 - 2015-01-23 05:12:29 UTC
I've been playing on and off for the last 7 years and recently jumped back in. Wasn't around for the implementation of teams and never got to use them this time around (or took the time to understand the system.)

But, my initial assumption when briefly noticing them this last week was that the teams were player created/influenced and not NPC.

Perhaps that idea - more player influence over them, would create a new dynamic in the economy and add value to the service.

Seems that the majority of feedback so far is that Teams (1) don't offer enough ROI and (2) aren't placed strategically for the players operating at the level where it would benefit them. Even the 'tin foil' conspiracy that it was CCP creating an ISK sink would be addressed through the offering of a player driven service.

If Team operations were contract based and offered by corporations invested in R&D, the services would find their way to systems where the market needs them (instead of forcing the individual to pursue the service). The ISK spent would redistribute within the economy (percentages could be removed as fees) and would be more regulated based on the skill training/investment from individual or corporation. CCP would have the ability to control overall gauge of the service market by the requirements in pricing of required skill-packages.

From what I understand of the current economy system - supply and demand is the main modifier. The ability to offer different services within the system would open up many new market options.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#191 - 2015-02-06 19:58:56 UTC
So did they ever come out and give us their plan for fixing the things that they broke when they put teams in with the promise of more teams to fix them? Like T2 invention among others...

And I really like how if they saw it wasn't performing how they intended that they asked for player input to make it better, not. Nope, they just up and took it right back out. How about they apply this type of development style to CQ, it didn't get the response they wanted, hasn't been improved, so why not just remove that feature entirely as well?
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#192 - 2015-02-06 22:26:23 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
So did they ever come out and give us their plan for fixing the things that they broke when they put teams in with the promise of more teams to fix them?

No, that's it. Industry's done, on to other things. Enjoy Roll

--
David Gradivus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#193 - 2015-02-07 07:11:39 UTC
It's good to see new ideas but I think it adds an unnecessary twist. Good move
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#194 - 2015-02-08 17:38:44 UTC
Ydnari wrote:
No, that's it. Industry's done, on to other things. Enjoy Roll



We have a winner.

Sadly, thus ends the experiments and any future fixes in industry.

Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
sasf
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2015-02-11 22:00:23 UTC
I only ever managed to secure myself one team, and they were awesome. I was building tonnes of T2 frigates at the time and this team lowered the materials required by a lot.

The only issue I had with 'teams' was having to compete with other players to hire them. I could never afford the amount of isk that was getting thrown around.
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